Dave: 0:21

Good morning, good morning, everybody. It's another Friday, which means we're here with another episode of the Business Unscripted podcast. It's Dave Warden, and for those of you that are celebrating, happy Halloween. I'm not in costume, unless you want to call a businessman, I guess, a costume. But we're here today. So if you are an aspiring business owner or you're a business owner who's looking to just learn, you know, some new tools, tricks, strategies, or learn from our mistakes, you're in the right spot. What we do on this podcast is we help owners like yourself learn from our experiences, give insights, talk about different topics that are impactful to you, or maybe things that are happening on you know around the business world. So you're in the right spot. We hope you know you enjoy the show. We go live every Friday at 8 15 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. And then obviously you can uh check out our recordings or audio wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. So do me a favor, grab your uh favorite cup of Joe and let's jump into the show because we got a good one today. So on today's episode, we are joined by Mr. Sean Banks from Cash Consulting. And I'm gonna bring Sean onto the stage now. So, Sean, welcome. Welcome to you know to the show, man. How are you?

Sean: 1:36

I'm doing good, and good morning to everybody that's watching the show.

Dave: 1:41

Awesome. Well, Sean and I have actually known each other a while. So for those of you, you know, if you've watched this for a long time, you know that I've been on the platform Alignable for a little over two years now. And Sean and I met there, and we have, you know, it's one of these things that it's it's good for relationship building, right? Like I think a lot of people overlook that piece of business is the relationship building, keeping in touch, you know, seeing how you could possibly help each other and and comment and grow and question and outreach. So I think that's one of the things that you and I have done well, Sean, is it's for each other, right?

Sean: 2:14

Yeah, definitely. I would say when we first met, actually, and I want to sing your praises here, because when we first met on Alignable, you shared this whole vision of you and multiple coaches coming together to actually do something for the community. And I actually took your vision and ran with it. And I reached back out to you, what, maybe the next day or two days later, like, David, like we got to do put together some type of summit. And next thing you know, last year I built my first ever summit for the first time. You actually, you and Dwarne gave me the tools to actually do it. That's when you introduced me to Go High Level. At that point, like I was in a different CRM trying to figure out like how I'm gonna pull all this together. And like literally, you just sat with me and you literally showed me how to work Go High Level. You showed me how to put the tiers together, we put all the integrations together, the the follow-ups. And it turned out to be a really successful event, even for my first one. Uh, we had about what 50 people registered, 30 in attendance. But for you and me and three other coaches to come together where we talked about marketing, finance, AI mindset, like to do that on one stage was was amazing. And to be honest, it doesn't matter about the size of it. I think it shows it goes back to what you said, the power of relationships is what's really important. And everybody that I had on stage with me was everybody I built a relationship with, you know, through alignable. So that's why if you're not on alignable right now, I encourage everybody to get on alignable, let people know like what you're doing, what you're building, and find those people, find your tribe, I should say, that share the same core values and go out and build something together.

Dave: 3:51

Oh yeah, I I I 100% agree with you, you know, and and for one, thank you. Uh, it was great to be a part of the event. I think it was a great time. We're looking forward to the next one. I know you're working on kind of putting another one together, so that's awesome. But I I also agree with you, like alignable. So if you're you're out there, like we always talking to you, you know, far too many people will try to get into networking and it's like, hey, what's for me, what's for me? And they they drop out too quickly and they're like, oh, I didn't get anything from this. Not realizing that like it takes you know, months, sometimes even years to build relationships with some people, depending on how often you're actually having conversations. And you have to think about it too. Like, if you're, you know, Sean, you know, if you have a value of a service that let's say it's you know worth four or five, ten thousand dollars or more a year, you know, networking can be worth it. You know, you only need like one, you know, a year to make that whole networking experience all ultimately worth it. And so I think part too many people get into it and they don't give it the time to fester and grow and they drop out too quickly. So alignable, I think, is you know, I said it, but it's good to hear you kind of say the same thing that it's good to see that.

Sean: 5:01

Yeah, and you hit and you hit something right in the head. You say it takes time, and I feel like in this day and age, everybody wants stuff super fast, like they want it instantaneously. But what people don't realize is that anything takes time, and you have to put in the work and effort, like building, like networking and building relationships, it takes you really have to put in the work. And I feel like it's a 50-50, it's a 50-50 split. Like whoever you're networking with or building a relationship with, that person that you're trying to build it with, they have to do the same thing. So it has to be reciprocal. And if the other person isn't doing it, then honestly, it's not worth you investing any more time and energy into that building that relationship. And I'll say this too like besides money, time is one of the greatest currencies out there because right now, like people are life is short, and we don't have when our last day on this earth can be.

Dave: 5:56

Uh, and I'm not trying to like come in with this being No, and it's funny because that's like in my purpose statement for why I'm in business, is because I know it all too well. Like I lost my brother when I was 16, you know, and you're you're not guaranteed tomorrow, you know, you're not exactly exactly.

Sean: 6:10

So you have to be intentional with your time and how you spend it. So don't spend it with the wrong people.

Dave: 6:16

Yeah. And you're and what's the what's the interesting part? Like you said, two two most important currencies for people in business, right? Money and time. However, money you can always make more of. Time, you don't get any more of it once it's gone. And everybody has the same resource, right? The same number of hours in a day, same minutes, same seconds. So that's the one that like everybody's fair with. Money, maybe not so much. People may have more or less rates than anybody else, but time is that one, it's constant for everybody in business and life. And so it's it's ultimately how do you use it? And I think you said the right point point there is you know, don't spend too much time trying to build a relationship with somebody that you know you're not reciprocal. So if you find that you're giving too much and you're not getting back right in terms of anything, right? And they're just take, take, take, take, take, you know, maybe it's time to to build a relationship somewhere else. And with that, too, it's you know, also keep in mind that you have to give first in networking. I I you know, this has been I've I've said this to a lot of people. You have to be willing to give, give, give, just like Gary V says in his book, right? Jeb Rick Hook. You know, you have to give at least three or two times before people kind of begin to trust you. And we'll start seeing some back.

Sean: 7:32

Yeah, exactly. I I completely agree. Everybody is so quick to get to sale, but they they just don't want to put in the things that you have to do at first, which you say is yeah, I give away something for free. The more of it you give, the more you're gonna get back.

Dave: 7:47

Right. Yep. And so give value, give education. And it doesn't necessarily have to be you're giving away your your whole service, your whole support. No, but just give them some insights, give some referrals, like just listen to what people are saying. And one last thing on networking, and I know that's not even what we wanted to talk about, but that's why this is the the business of scripted podcast, because we can just go off on tangents at any time. But but the last thing I'll say for people is is for networking piece is if you're just getting into it, don't just think you have to go to networking to talk to your ideal client, right? Think of that next level of who does business with your ideal client. So, for example, if you want to do business like Sean and I with business owners, don't just go and always try to meet business owners. Like, think of who also is doing business with those same people, like HR professionals, fractional CFOs, payroll companies, insurance brokers, anybody of the like, and try to build relationships with that level. Because how that's different now is as you're building that relationship, you become that trusted referral source. When they give your name to a business owner, right, you're now that trusted warm referral instead of you trying to build a cold relationship with every one of your ideal clients. And so too many people forget that level and and they just try to focus on their ideal client and they forget to build relationships with also people that are doing business. And it's so much easier when you're a trusted warm referral to somebody than trying to build a cold relationship.

Sean: 9:19

Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that. A lot of my business has been really through referrals. Uh, so people that I met on alignable, off alignable at different networking events, those people are sending people to me to actually talk to and somehow become my clients. So I tell you, it it does work. Uh, and I agree with everything you said, David. Uh, make sure that you are talking to the people that's actually engaged with your target market. You don't have to go cold every single time. Like broke, have those people broker introductions in for you.

Dave: 9:50

Absolutely. Well, let's get let's get into it. So before we we kind of jump into your journey, Sean. So if you have any questions, make sure you drop them down below for Sean or I, whether it's you know during the show or after the show, we'll make sure to get them answered for you. Um, and if you're interested in in being a part of a future episode, down below in the description is a link where you can sign up to be a future guest if you're a business owner and you want to jump on a future episode. We are more than happy to have you go ahead and fill that out for us and we'll get you on a future episode. So so, Sean, let's start with your journey. So, how did you get into business? How did you become an entrepreneur?

Sean: 10:27

Sure. So I started cash consulting in 2017 and literally it happened at my parents' house and in my bedroom. And the reason why I started it, and this is to be no fully transparent, is like I always wanted to go into consulting of some kind. And everywhere that I applied to, I either didn't meet the requirements that were set by the company, maybe I was just a poor interviewer at the time, but I just wanted to go into consulting. And I was like, you know what? If companies don't want to give me a chance, I gotta find a way to open my own doors to do what I want to do. And that's why I started cash consulting, literally paid $100 to get the LLC, built my website initially on GoDaddy, and next thing you know, like I was off and running. Some people I met along the way helped me start it off the foundation of cash consulting. So one of the people was a web designer, and I started offering web design services to business owners, so rebuilding their websites. Eventually I started adding SEO services because I had a friend that did SEO, and he said, like, hey, you can sell my services to anybody that you want. Eventually had someone to do social media for me. So it was slowly picking up as I was meeting people and just adding more services to the portfolio. I'll say fast forward from 2017 to I'll say to COVID around that time. I've had maybe two or three interns. I had one person that was working with me, actually, two people working with me full-time for a little bit, pretty much on a commission type basis. Uh, some of them were actually partnerships. But no, it was just a lot to for me, because I was in school trying to get my MBA. I was working full time, I had a business, I was newly married, and I was juggling a lot of different stones. And I was just thinking to my and looking back on it, I'm thinking to myself, damn, I really put myself through all of that.

Dave: 12:22

Um, I'm a survivor.

Sean: 12:26

I mean, they say like to be an on to be an entrepreneur, like you gotta have some type of crazy. And I think I was way beyond crazy at that point because I was literally I was working, you know, burning myself out after my full-time job. I was up to like eight o'clock, nine o'clock at night working with clients. But I think that's just like how this business is. If you want to be successful, you got to put the the time and effort in. And then let's fast forward from COVID to now, and I think this is also a meaningful touch point as well. I lost both my parents in 2021. I lost one to COVID, I lost uh one to terminal cancer. And one thing I've I've never I had to work on was really being in that moment, just learning to grieve. Uh, I think when I lost both my parents, all I did was just think about like working more. Right. Because I feel like work was like an escape for me.

Dave: 13:21

Yeah, you're pushing everything out. Yeah.

Sean: 13:23

Yeah. And that is that is something. This is, I guess, one takeaway I want everyone to get from me here is that, you know, you have to, in the moment, like you have to process these type of things, whether it's loss or wherever the case may be. And I would just say, no, have someone that you can talk to, whether it's a therapist, your best friend. Of course, my wife was my confidant at the time too. So I can also go to her. But we have to do a better job of communicating how we feel, no matter like how hard it is. And I think that's one thing that I had to learn is that I can't keep pushing down my emotions and trying to like push forward. It's okay to take a break and really internalize like what's going on around me. So, you know, for me, like I had to personally get into therapy, talk about losing my parents, you know, talk about being a brand new husband. It's just like a it's just a lot of things can impact you. And one thing I've always learned is that you gotta take care of yourself, not only just physically, but you gotta take care of yourself mentally uh and emotionally. Or because if you go down, the business goes down too. Right. But but the fast forward even from the COVID, like we're here in 2025 now, my business has completely changed from what it was those years ago. I've really like scaled down my business. I know where I want to focus. I'm more intentional about what I want to talk to people about, how I want to help people and business owners all together. And one thing I was just saying, having that clarity on what you want to do is the most powerful thing. Because when you start a business, you can focus on a lot of different things. But if you're not clear on where you want to take your business, if you're not clear on like what your goals are and what you're doing or what you want to get out of it, then really every time that you wake up in the morning and you don't have no clear path on how you're trying to get from point A to point B, then you have to ask yourself, what am I really doing here? And it's one thing to walk in on the street.

Dave: 15:33

Let me ask you this because I think this is a big thing. So, you know, the therapy piece, right? Do you feel like when you went to that that it had a positive or I guess on the flip side, a negative impact maybe on on your business kind of vision and and focus for the future? Or do you how do you feel like that that that impacted? Because I think a lot of people they they think you know therapy has a stigma, you know, the that you know, stigmatism or you know, untrue sort of you know thought process around therapy in general. But how do you feel like it actually impacted your situation?

Sean: 16:09

I feel like it it was definitely a positive transformation because one thing, and I feel like this is for everybody, we don't take a hard look at ourselves. Like we try to think that we're we're in our best version, like we're perfect. But to be honest, that's not the case because there could be some red flags that you may not even notice, but someone else does. And I feel like therapy did that for me, where somebody was just through a simple conversation and asking questions, they were the able to dive in and find stuff that I didn't really think about. So therapy was definitely a huge plus. And I would say when I first started, I was kind of scared at the point because um I've never opened up really that much to anybody. Like I've always been an introvert, I've always like kept stuff to myself just because most times like I was either you know, either a loner or you know, I just wouldn't want to bother people with my problems. But just talking to somebody, like it was scary to like they'll put my whole life like in front of this person and be like, hey, go through this and find the problems I need to work on. And that person did, like, they dug, they dug real deep. They asked me real questions that I never asked myself, maybe my closest friends never asked me for whatever reason. And it helped me realize, like, hey, you know what? There are some things here that I need to work on, or else I'm not gonna be able to grow in the way that I need to grow in order to be successful.

Dave: 18:13

Nice. And so from that, from that point forward, how do you, you know, what what's the biggest lesson that you've kind of learned? Because I think when when you experience loss, especially your parents, yeah, or or any family member in that general, you know, in any way closer, like it could it could have a prolonged effect. Like, how do you feel like it's probably still affecting you to today, right?

Sean: 18:37

Yeah, it it definitely does. My father's my dad's birthday was the 21st of October. My mom's birthday was September 28th. And it's just different not to have him here like with me. The last thing that my parents did before they left this earth was help me and my wife get our first house together, first condo, I should say. And literally, we we got married in August of 2020. I'm sorry, July of 2020. And next thing you know, next thing you know, January of 2021 gets here. We just got our condo, and I get the call. Hey, your dad's in the hospital. Like he's been struck with COVID because he's been fighting it for months. And literally, like as soon as I got that news, I remember it like to this day vividly. I literally just dropped the phone, like paralyzed, just no, tears rolling through my face, or my face, because like I knew something was wrong every time that I talked to him on the phone leading up to that point, because he would be coughing, he wouldn't sound like himself. But if I could, if there's anything that I've learned from therapy, is one, you gotta have an outlet. And if you don't feel comfortable talking to someone about it, they'll definitely write down like how you feel. Like keep uh keep a running journal. Another thing is too, is no be rooted in your core values. Uh, I feel like that's no, that's very important because those core values is gonna take you, it's gonna take you far. And it's going to is going to attract the people that you want and need in your life just by living through those core values and your purpose. And I'll say like the the third one too that I'll say that I really got from being in therapy is I would just say the third one is no, really I guess it goes back to the intentionality. I would say no, be intentional every day that you wake up. And it goes back to what we said about time. Like time is is a sunken cost, if we if we can use accounting terms. Like you can't get it back, no matter how you spend it, whether it's good times, bad times. So for the moment you wake up in the morning, make sure that everything that you do is something that you enjoy, something that you're not going to regret, something that makes you happy. Because you can't you can't live life for anybody else. You can't please everybody. At the end of the day, you gotta make sure that whatever eight the whatever 24 hours you put in this world, you gotta make sure that in the day, like I can say that I woke up and I lived the best day I could live. And if I was to go away tomorrow, then I can have no regrets whatsoever.

Dave: 21:30

I love that. Yeah, because I I mean I totally agree with you, you know what I mean. Like you you can't live with regret. You have to live, especially you have to live like today is the last day, right? All the time, you know. All too often I've been caught in the trap where I'm like, oh, I'll just get to that, I'll get to that tomorrow, I'll get to that, you know, next week. And most, you know, that works until it does. Yep. And and ultimately, like you said, like you have your values, you have your vision for what you wanna, like the legacy you want for yourself, you know, and that's why I feel and I tell people a lot of times, like, and this works in business because you have to know where you're where you're going. So just like in life, you have your bit your your business has to have its vision, it's got to have its destination. Like, what's that end goal? Like, is it do you want it to be this, you know, everything that you hold that you you take distributions for down the road? Is it something you want to grow and sell? Like, do all those different decisions affect the path and decisions you make today? Because one wrong choice could put you off the path, and it might take three or four years to get back, you know, and ultimately, you know, it's in life and it's and it's the same as in business. But here's the thing as well, is like you have today. This is the only thing you can control, you know. Like the last three, four, ten years of your life, you can't change that, right? So, so don't live in that. Like, don't live in the rear view mirror of of your life, like look forward. It's a reason why, even in driving, you know, I make the comparison all the time. Like, the windshield's a lot bigger than a rear view mirror, right? Just like in life, spend time going forward. If you spend too much time looking in a rear view mirror, if you're driving, you're gonna crash, you're gonna do that and same thing in your life. Um, always always move forward, always keep pushing.

Sean: 23:13

So I'm gonna use that analogy, by the way, just to let you know.

Dave: 23:17

You can steal it. Yeah, I don't have I just it's true, you know what I mean? Like you have side mirrors to check, right? What's going on, you know, you know, in other people's lives, great, but you don't live there, you don't live in a rear mirror. You live looking forward and moving forward. And essentially, when you live your life that way, it's it's profound, you know what you can what you can do. So, Sean, appreciate you kind of sharing that. Like, you know, obviously that's in-depth. I'm so sorry for your loss. Like, it's more especially both parents. You know, I lost my father, but and I'm sure you had a close relationship, it sounds like with them too. So yeah, yeah, man. I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. Uh-huh.

Sean: 23:55

No, you're you're fine. I came up here to I came up here with the mindset and intention of having a real conversation because you just never know one who's watching. It could be future business owners, it could be someone that's going through something right now. Uh, and you just never you just never know. And I feel like everybody should use whatever platform they have to tell their story, uh, because everyone has one, good, bad. Uh, and I feel like we have to we have to put ourselves out there. And it it does the same thing with your business. If you're it doesn't matter what type of business you're in, like you have to put yourself out there. And I think the first part is being true to yourself and like why you do what you do.

Dave: 24:37

Yeah. No, 100% I agree with you, man. So so tell us, but so obviously now you get you have CAF consulting. Give me, you know, the the high level of the main services and and the things that you support your clients with.

Sean: 24:52

Dude, so like I said, you know, the business has changed. It's not what it used to be. Me and myself, I got more clarity on where I want to focus. And right now, a lot of what I'm doing is providing sales support to small businesses and solopreneurs. And I do this through my YouTube channel. I completely revamped my YouTube channel. I took off whatever old videos I had up there, and everything is just me providing sales tips and best practices to help solopreneurs think about their sales processes, think about some of the things that they're not doing currently that could be keeping them from not closing the deal today, from not, you know, progressing the deal that they already have in their pipeline. Or maybe what's stopping them from starting a deal that could actually change the outlook of their business. So I'm hoping that through the YouTube channel, someone could take those little tidbits that I'm providing and use it to get further faster, like with their business.

Dave: 25:49

And and on there, what what are the main kind of tips and strategies that you're that you're sharing on your YouTube channel? What's kind of the main focus? So if somebody's watching.

Sean: 25:59

So I'm trying to do full cycle, trying to provide tips and best practices for full cycle sales. So from starting the conversation all the way to closing. And I'm trying to break it down as as much as possible because there are people that are completely new to sales that's going to be watching uh my channel. And I don't want to use too many acronyms that I've learned over the years. And if I do use acronyms, I try to break it down as much as possible so that someone, even a baby, could you know try to understand it. But the main thing is like I want to what I'm trying to do is like get people to think about where in my sales process am I really losing like my prospect? Like, is it in the very beginning? Is it in the middle where I'm trying to do some discovery? Or is that the very end where the prospect fully understands my services, what it can do for them, but yet they're not moving forward to signing a for signing the the contract and cutting a check.

Dave: 27:00

Okay. So what and I know we kind of talked a little bit about this kind of pre-show. So YouTube's one big thing. So you know, go follow what what is your what is your YouTube channel? What's the name of it? Is it just cash consulting or what's the name we have?

Sean: 27:14

Yeah, it's it's just cash consulting.

Dave: 27:16

Okay. So if you're interested in kind of learning some sales tips and and and sales, you know, insights, go follow Sean uh and his channel over there on YouTube. But what would you say, let's let's start with this. What based on your knowledge and working with clients, what is the biggest issue that you see that a lot of either small, you know, starting out business owners, like they they see in their business when it comes to sales. What's the biggest issue that you've encountered?

Sean: 27:48

I would say the biggest issue is really going about starting the conversation. And then once you start that conversation and you get that next meeting, really digging in to what are the pain points that your prospect is having and how you can really help them. And I feel like the biggest challenges is that business owners, solopreneurs, they don't know how to communicate what it is that they're actually doing or what problem they're actually solving for their prospects. And nowadays, with AI and automation, a lot of these business owners are talking about, hey, I can come and automate your entire business for you. We can use AI to do X, Y, and Z. And I'm just like, first of all, you're you're just plainly talking about results. Like, it's good that you're bringing these results, but what's the actual problem? Like, why does a business owner need to automate X, Y, and Z? So being able to communicate what their problem is that the prospect is facing today, and then also being able to ask the right questions to really gear or really gauge if this person is who you should be spending time with, and if you can actually help this person to begin with, too.

Dave: 28:56

Right. And and how do you advise somebody who comes to you, right? And they see that issue or they're experiencing that issue. What's the best way that you you kind of help them get through that or overcome that?

Sean: 29:11

The first thing I always ask somebody is who's your target audience? Like, who are you focused on? And a lot of times they can't really tell me like who their target audience is. So I give them this framework that I call the four W's. And what it is is just asking yourself four simple questions to try and figure out who that potential target audience or client could be. And those four questions really is like, what is their problem? Why do they have this problem? Who is impacted? Where are these people located? If you can answer like those four questions, then you'll be able to pretty map out who your target customer is, and you will have a little bit more of an idea of how you need to go about getting in front of your target audience and what that message needs to look like.

Dave: 30:04

Okay. And what if somebody's listening, what's two things that they should focus on around that? What's the top two things that you say that they should really focus on?

Sean: 30:14

They really need to focus, they really need to focus on what is the problem that they're solving, and they need to focus on now why do these people have this problem to begin with? The reason why I say focus on why they have this problem to begin with, because sometimes most problems. Depending on the scope of it, might be too big for them to actually solve to begin with. Like I've seen business owners that try to tackle on trying to provide clean water to everybody. That is a huge problem to tackle in itself because it takes a lot of investment, a lot of infrastructure to do that. But if you can find a simple problem that you can fix for somebody today, like that is going to propel you forward than trying to clean all the water in the entire US.

Dave: 31:05

And I think the biggest thing that a lot of people and I struggled with this when it comes to those sales conversations. And you kind of mentioned, right, the problem that you're solving is the conversation goes to logic, right? You start talking about your services, your you know, what you're providing, all the different pieces and parts of your program or your product, whatever it means, it may be, but you forget that people don't buy on logic. People buy on emotion. And so what you need to hit on in those conversations is the obstacle, the stressors, the struggles that people are facing when they need your service or they need your product. And how does your product or service help them overcome that and alleviate those emotional things that are happening? And then that to me has been one of the biggest things. You know, that was it's been a game changer for me in having conversations because, you know, ultimately people will, you know, people buy any an emotion, but then they they'll defend the decision with logic. And as long as the logic's there, you know it's there because you're providing a a high quality service or product, you know the logic's there. You just need to get them over to that emotional hump. And I think far too many people focus on the logical side of their service or their business, and then they struggle. They're like, why can't I close? Why don't people why aren't people interested?

Sean: 33:02

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Yeah, like sales is an emotional game. Like you have to figure out if they if if Dave doesn't fix this problem today, what's gonna happen?

Dave: 33:15

Yep.

Sean: 33:16

And the more that you focus on the consequential pains of not fixing that problem, the more that you can tap into the emotional size of your prospect.

Dave: 33:27

Love it. And so next, you know, obviously, in order to talk to prospects, right? You have to understand how to find them, how to prospect for them, right? The discovery process. So how or what is your focus when you're when you're talking with a your client of yours to help them be better at discovery, be better at prospecting?

Sean: 33:52

So that's a fair question. And I would say the first one, it goes back to step one, really understanding who your target audience is. And the next step, what I would say is you know, really figuring out, like once you know who your target audience is, where do you need to go to get in front of your target audience? And a lot of times people spend their time on all these different social media platforms. They try to be everywhere TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. But the thing is, are you just adding more to your plate instead of actually getting in front of the people that you need to be in front of? Because you don't need to be on every social media channel. Like if you're a solopreneur, I advise you just be on one or two, one or two platforms where your target audience is and really go deep into using that platform, use its algorithms to actually help you get in front of the people that you need to be in front of. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, I would say, is that we need to experiment more as a business owner. So you want to have to think of different ways to actually do lead generation. And that can be through webinars, that can be through articles, it could be doing a podcast like this, it could be using YouTube. So record yourself to talk about different tips and best practices. So you're gonna have to experiment with different ways to do lead generation. And I would say this too like you don't have to do paid advertisements all the time. Like do the free stuff first. It doesn't cost nothing to record a YouTube video. It doesn't cost anything to write an article on some of the challenges that you're seeing with your target audience. It's nothing to go and find people with a podcast and ask them, like, hey, can I be a guest on your show? I want to talk about X, Y, and Z because this is a problem that's happening right now. Another thing is share trends that you see. A lot of people, a lot of people really care about, no, a really people care about those trends that that they're seeing. And they want to know, like, how's how's my industry being impacted by AI? Like, how can I use AI to propel my business forward? That's just like an example right there. But no, going back to what I said, like experiment with different ways to do lead generation. And then going back to what you said about discovery, it's just really asking the right questions to get as much information from your prospect as possible. So really figuring out what is the consequential pains of them not solving the problem that they're having, but also asking them, like, hey, you know, who else is impacting your business if they're depending on the size of their business?

Dave: 36:36

So do you see that a lot of people struggle, you know, in terms of identifying where their target clients are or how to just connect with them?

Sean: 36:48

What do you feel like is the biggest that you're it's a it's a problem on both ends and both sides? Not knowing who their audience is, not being able to connect with them. And I feel like the the biggest thing, too, is also doing the follow-ups. Once you have a good conversation, like you want to make sure you're following up with that prospect and you're staying top of mind every single, like every single day. And I think that's a dirty, like having a cadence. So if you're if you have a good conversation with somebody, what is that follow-up email or call gonna look like? If you can't get in front of your target audience, let's say, let's say if you're cold calling, for example, if someone doesn't pick up the phone, are you giving up after that first time? Are you giving up after you get that one objection? So having a cadence is really important. And one thing I've learned it takes between eight and 13 touch points to actually get somebody to respond to you, whether it's by phone call or email. So you want to make sure that you have something established in your cadence where you're consistently but also purposefully reaching out to a prospect, trying to engage.

Dave: 38:00

The uh the eight to 13, it could be even more, especially if it's a cold, like if it's a cold outreach. Like eight to thirteen could is like that warm we were talking earlier, maybe a warm connection or uh you know warm network, you know, kind of touch base. Just and that's to close the sale, right? Like you may be getting responses, and each response is a touch point, right? Each time they they see your name pop up in their email, each time they see your name pop up in their feed and social media, those are all touch points that build the expertise, that relationship, the you know, the trust in who you are, as long as you're hitting those pieces of information that you're sharing, you know, maybe your YouTube channel or whatever it ends up being. So when we say things like, you know, you have to have for cold, sometimes it could be upwards of 50, you know, before they sort of trust you enough to be willing to do or you know, and enter into a partnership support relationship with you. You know, it's it's important for you to keep following up. And uh here here here, I'll give an example of so I just signed a you know, a close, you know, he's my he's my realtor, right? And we just signed him to some bookkeeping support, our Triumph Final Sure program. But it took you know, us kind of checking back in, seeing how things were going. I would say for you know, probably five months, right? Of how things were coming along, if there's anything else we could offer, is there anything I could do? And then, you know, we just had a conversation, was able to kind of you know close that yesterday. And the idea was if I would have just let it go, like I probably would have, you know, when I was earlier on in my business career, I would have lost that opportunity, lost that, you know, sort of support and partnership that we were able to develop now. And now ultimately, once you then bring them on and into your business, it's on you to you know provide the support that you promised or that you said you were going to do to continue that relationship on going you know into the future.

Sean: 39:57

Question for you, Dave. How many how many check-ins did it take you to actually close your realtor?

Dave: 40:04

I I would say, you know, I think we touch base like once a month, you know, just kind of how are things are how things are coming along, like you know, and I don't use the hey, just following up, sir, like what's new? Like it's one of those things like, hey, are you still are you still interested in this? And then you know, it's like, oh yeah, you know, we are, we're just busy. Like, you know, you don't use the just following up, just checking in, just circling back, right? Those are sales phrases that so many people use, and when they hear that, it's like just cringe, right? It's like nails on a dropboard for me when I when I see people use that. And so ultimately it's it's and what we have to realize, and one of the biggest things that for me was a release when I think of sales, is that one, I don't take things personally because it's not my problem, right? I'm just here to try to provide the solution and outcome for them that they're looking for. And so for me, if somebody's either not ready or maybe they're not getting back to me, it's okay. Like I'm I just hey, do you still need this support? Like you mentioned, you needed it. Is it something you're still in the market for? Are you still thinking about? You know, reach out. Yeah, I'm here, got some got some availability or something like that, you know? Yeah, and that that shift for me was you know, kind of a great leap forward because now it's I'm not trying to close everybody because it's not my problem.

Sean: 41:24

Exactly. And I want to go back to what you said earlier about following up, like, hey, I'm just calling to check in, just seeing how things are. It goes back to what you said. You have to provide something for free or something of substance to get someone to really think about you and the services that you offer. So when you're doing these check-ins, quote unquote, for me, like provide something of value. And it goes back like, hey, Dave, did you see this article here? Like, based on our conversation the last time, no, this article is something you need to read. Let's have a conversation about this. Or it could be just recording a video as a check-in and just saying, like, hey, Dave, just following up here, last time we spoke, you said you were going to X, Y and Z. Yeah. Uh last time we spoke, we told we're talking about X, Y, and Z. I'm curious, how is it? Is that still a problem for you today?

Dave: 42:14

Right.

Sean: 42:14

Uh, also sharing testimonials. Like every time that we follow up, and this is where a lot of business owners mess up in their cadence, they're just doing checking in. How are you doing? But they're not providing anything of value or substance. And that's where you need to be coming in and sharing those client testimonials, sharing those trends that you're finding. If you just write it wrote an article, no, share it with that potential prospect if it's something that's applicable to them. So when you're following up, no, it has to be some intention behind it. And when you're talking about it.

Dave: 42:47

Well, I think too like that's the biggest thing that I think some people forget too, and I'll let you better. Sorry, is like when you have a new meeting or a new connection, like you should have a mailing list, right? That you add them to, and then every week or every month, whenever you're kind of releasing these things, like you're in their mailbox again, you're top of mind. That's the idea. And so, you know, or you know, putting it on, you know, the more you can post, the better. But like you said, be intentional with it. Like if you know, you know, take a minute, 30 minutes, schedule it, you know, in your calendar if you need to every month, you know, to share recent items or or things that you put together with targeted individuals and targeted messaging, I think is important.

Sean: 43:32

And very, very important, but you just said targeted. Also, that personalization as well. That goes a very long way. And one thing I'll say is take a second to just ask yourself, I'm about to reach out to Dave. Why? What is the purpose of you reaching out? And I feel like a lot of times we don't ask ourselves why. What do we hope that by sending this email, sending this video, or making this phone call, what do I want it to do? And the more that we ask ourselves that, the more that we can really determine if like if our checkpoint is really necessary. Like, is this something that's gonna make fine, is this something that Dave is gonna find valuable? Is this something that's gonna make Dave wanna have come back and have a conversation with me? And a lot of times, and I don't blame man for this, we we're using AI and automation to help us get in front of people faster, send those emails a lot faster. But one thing we don't stop and do is think about, okay, I'm about to send this email out to a hundred some people. Is all a hundred people that you're about to send this email to, are they gonna find it applicable? Are they gonna find it relevant? So being able, like you said, have that purpose and that purpose for reaching out, that intent, but also maybe just knowing who like your audience is and if it's something that they're gonna find, find a value. So one thing is if you're gonna have a mailing list, maybe break it down into segment your customers. Like, okay, I have these customers who's in accounting, these who are in HR, these who are who are in operations. Before sending that email, think about like what segment of customers is going to benefit from this the most. And just know like what the end goal is of sending out that email or whatever campaign it is that you're gonna be sending out.

Dave: 45:23

That that's a good point, you know. And especially like, you know, not every conversation. I think a lot of people initially, and and I think I this is for me too. When you think of the point of what the phone call or the outreach was, it's like, well, I need to I need to try to close. Like that's that's what people would think, right? It's like, oh, I just need to sign them up. When when ultimately, you know, a lot of times it's you know, are they still even in the market? Like it would be like the point of a conversation, and that's when you can kind of say, you know, and re like we said, outreach with the you know, hey, just just wanted to see, is this still something that's a pain point for you? You know, I know the last time we chatted, you know, you mentioned that X, Y, and Z was a problem. Like, Sean, for you, it would, you know, that sales was was a struggle. Is this something you're still struggling with? And that question, like you're not you're just trying to determine it, are they still a potential buyer? And that's a great, you know, kind of follow-up message. You know, that's a great objective to have for a call. You're not trying to close, you're just trying to determine are they even still in the market? Um and and what what that does now is it updates your your Rolodex or your you know your CRM, however you're kind of tracking it, to say, like, okay, they're still in the buying window. Now it's like now you're like, all right, I need to get him some valuable information about the service or the program and and give that value, as you were saying, for for him to you know get even more trust in me or more trust in the program. And so those types of outreaches can can definitely lead you closer to that path, you know what I mean? Of close.

Sean: 47:44

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it also it goes back to the time aspect because you don't want to be spending time with the wrong person. If that person's not in the market, then you need to put them on a back burner. A lot of times, after someone says, I'm not in the market, this is not a pain point problem for me anymore. Some solopreneurs still keep reaching out with the same message every day. If that person's not interested or they're just not in the market anymore, they gave you that hard no. Take that person out your out your mailing list. Like follow them, put them in the mailing list, like, hey, touch, touch base in three months or so. But don't spend your time chasing after the wrong people because you're just gonna want to burn yourself out, you're gonna waste a lot of energy, but you could be focused on the people that has a problem that you're trying to solve today. That's people that you could be helping today. So that's just something I want to close the loop on when it comes to making sure that you're reaching out with intent and you're knowing why you're reaching out to somebody.

Dave: 48:50

Yeah, I I would um I would agree with that in in terms of you know outreach. So I think we we hit that one really good. I think the last thing that I want to kind of cover with you, Sean, is you know a lot of people who get into business, right? They're typically not salespeople, right? My my I was never a salesperson, right? You know, I worked in corporate, I didn't have to sell. So what would you think are let's just go with the top three gaps that you have noticed that a lot of solopreneurs or or new business owners, entrepreneurs don't understand about sales. What are the what are those top three things and those gaps of knowledge that you help your clients sort of you know kind of close?

Sean: 49:33

So I'll say the top three things, and I know I've probably said this a lot, really just knowing who your target audience is, knowing how to communicate the problem and asking the right questions. That is the the biggest gap. And I want to, if it's okay with you, Dave, I want to circle back to what you say. Like you didn't start out as a salesperson, and that's a lot of business owners today. They we have a gap in in sales knowledge because not everybody has access to the information. You know, I've had a privilege to be in a career of sales where I've been in different environments where I had to force myself to step out my comfort zone and actually talk to people. When I first started, I was an intern at radio station selling radio commercial spots to local businesses. Then, next thing I know, I found myself selling door to door for Verizon. Then I found myself working for a company called Smart Surf or selling products off Shark Tank in front of retail stores. I purposely put myself in these environments so that I could like really build that skill. But in order to like learn sales today, you're either going to have to one pay thousands of dollars to a sales coach for their coaching program, which a lot of solopreneurs don't have the money for. Two, you can go work for a company that offers sales training. But I feel like that would be also setting yourself back to if you're a full-time entrepreneur, like you're going to work for this company that's going to teach you how to sell, but they're going to expect you to go and sell their services and products. Or you can go on YouTube. No, you can learn for free. No, nothing is wrong with free. I feel like that's the goal in a nugget. But the biggest flaw with that is that you still got to practice. Like you can't just watch one or two YouTube videos and think that you can go out and implement it. No, like you really got to sit down and really practice your craft. Like before you even make that call, like you need to be, you need to be by yourself somewhere or maybe with a partner, practicing how that call is going to go. Like, how are you going to, what do you want to say? How are you going to say it? If you get an objection, like what do you want to do to overcome that objection? So those are like the three top ways you can learn how to sell. And I'm pretty sure there's a lot of nonprofit organizations that provide sales training, but you really got to think about like there is a there is a gap there when it comes to like sales. And it's not just so much just getting the information, like you have to practice it. Even before like I make a cold call, I have to literally stay in my head the script myself five times before I actually make that call. Because a lot of times you probably know this, you only get one chance to make a very good first impression. And literally, you can mess it up, that first impression, because you can mess up by saying one wrong thing or not even doing your research. So it's very important, and I really stress this that you really got to practice and implement what you're learning. And I feel like that's another thing too. People take the information, but they just not they're not practicing it before they go live. And people, when they come across the first objection and hit that brick wall, they're quick to give up. They stumble. It is a it's a resilience game.

Dave: 52:44

Uh yeah, I think you said you said that you said that that's the keyword, right? You said practice. Uh yeah, and far too many people do not practice, right? They're just they just think they're gonna jump in, it's good script, it's gonna be fine. But once you're hit, like you know, it's what was it? Was it Muhammad Ali or one of the one of the boxers that said, like, you have a plan for the match until you get punched in the mouth, right? And then the plane goes out the window. That's the same thing on a cool call. You have a plan for the call until the person says something that you weren't prepared for or didn't already think through, and then the entire script's out the window, and then you're stumbling through the conversation. And then, so yeah, for sure. But you definitely have to practice.

Sean: 53:22

Exactly. And one thing I'll tell you, and one thing I've learned is like you got to practice every single like tactic that you've learned in sales, you have to practice that at least a hundred times before you can get comfortable, and you may have to practice it on a hundred different people because everybody's not the same, everybody is not gonna be calm, cool, and collect like Dave and Sean is like you're gonna have people that woke up on the wrong side of the bed in the morning, they have stuff that there that's going on that they have no control over, they're freaking out over it. Like, you just never know what's going on.

Dave: 53:52

How often how how have you reacted to a cold call? You know, some people like you, you yourself have probably gotten a cold call and say, Screw you, and then hung up the phone, right? Like, how are you gonna you know overcome that? And sometimes you also have to realize that the first on the other line is you making a cold call to somebody else, you have to not take it personally, you know? Hey, you just call them at the wrong time.

Sean: 54:13

Exactly. And I and I get thousands of cold calls, and the one thing I hate is when companies call and you pick up the phone, it's not actually the person, it's an automated message saying, Yeah, hey, this is so and so calling from this company. I'm like, wait, stop, can you say that again? But the recording's still going on. Like, I hate that. Like, like I'm expecting like an actual person to actually call me. So, yeah, that's why I'm so against like the automation sometimes because people is just I see the intent behind it, but at the same time, you're not building an actual relationship, you're not building that connection. So, why am I gonna give you a call back if I'm just gonna be talking to a robot or some AI agent? Like, I don't want that. If you really want my business, if you really want to build a connection with me, if you really want to learn who Sean is, you know, really just pick up the phone and have a conversation with me. And I gotta, and I want to give a quick shout-out too. I forgot the person who called me, but uh, someone found me on a lineable. They found one of my comments on a post in a group. He went to my profile and he saw my number and he he literally picked up the phone and called me. And he was just asking, like, he was like asking, like, hey Sean, those of you don't have a website up and running. Like, why is that? I entertained the conversation because I appreciate when someone does the actual research, it did take time to come prepared to a call. Now, he probably didn't get what he wanted off that call because he obviously was trying to collect some information from me. He was trying to get my email to send me more information. I literally told him, like, hey man, you're unalignable, send me information through there first before I even give you that kind of information. But I entertained that call really because a lot of people nowadays they don't want to do the the work up front to actually get a deal. So I respect someone that takes the time to do the research and come prepared like to have that conversation.

Dave: 56:10

And and I guess like as your scale too, like there's obviously you just train your sales team at that point to do it appropriately, you know. But you know, if you're a solopreneur and you're kind of doing it all yourself, you know, I see both sides for sure. You know, like everybody, you know, when you're a solopreneur, you you wear every hat. And so you see these opportunities to you know have an AI calling agent or an AI outreach agent, or you know, ultimately, if you're training it to do the proper, right? You're not trying to close, you're just trying to lead gen for yourself to have qualified conversations. I think there's a benefit in it. Uh because you know you can't you can't do it. Like you're you're you're servicing your clients, right? You're you're trying to do so many other things in your business. The cold outreach part is the most one, you know, mundane, but also like the most time intensive. And so you have to make sure you have a good list, you've researched it, and then you know, the lead is that you're just qualifying to then have a conversation with you to develop that relationship. I think is I think there's some benefits of it. But I I also agree with you that you know people, so many people do it wrong.

Sean: 57:22

So I'm not against using AI and automating those type of things because you're right, no cell openers don't have the time. I think my argument here is don't use AI and automation for everything. Like don't use it for every step of your sales process. There has to be a part where there's a human element where you're doing you're doing the follow-ups yourself at some point. Because let's say if I get that AI message and I hang up once, twice, I'll I think at some point you need to pick up the phone yourself and be like, hey, Sean, you hung up on my AI agent or my first two calls uh initially. I'm just curious, was it the fact you're looking to talk to a real life person, or was this problem something you're not dealing with today?

Dave: 58:07

Right.

Sean: 58:07

See, that right there, you can if you can easily get a five to ten minute conversation going instead of having a 30-second, having your AI agent call and within 20 seconds, I'm hanging up the phone.

Dave: 58:20

Right. No, no, I I agree with you. I think I think you you kind of set your program, and again, you're gonna limit your conversations at that point, you know, to your follow-ups or to you know the people that you're your high target. So I would say, like, you know, if you have people who are right smacking your ideal client profile and you know you want to have a conversation with them, and as you said, you've seen that they've maybe hung up on the AI outreach, you know, two or three times in a row. Well, now maybe you have a trigger for yourself that says, hey, I need to do a personal call and see if this you know changes it. Um, because there's also different methods, like you have to combine it. Like some people prefer calls, some people prefer LinkedIn messages or Facebook messages or alignable messages. Like everybody has their preferred method. And if you only give yourself one method of outreach, you're missing the right through somebody who may not answer a phone call or hung hangs up really quick on a phone call, may actually engage in uh in a conversation through email or may actually engage in a conversation through DM on alignable. And so you have to be willing to kind of work all the avenues available to you.

Sean: 59:30

Exactly. And you hit a key point ahead. What works for me is not gonna work for everybody, but you gotta find, you gotta find one which you're comfortable with, but you also gotta balance it out because if you're just using one one style of communication, one one one tool for outreach, then you're really going to miss a lot of opportunities.

Dave: 59:50

For sure, for sure. Well, Sean, I appreciate you kind of joining me. What would you say? What's like the the number one or two things that you want somebody to to kind of talk come away with from our conversation today?

Sean: 1:00:04

I would say uh I know we dropped a whole lot of gems today in this conversation.

Dave: 1:00:08

You can do a lot of gold nuggets, that's for sure. Yeah, you can.

Sean: 1:00:12

For anybody that's selling a service or product, I would say really, really know who your who your target audience is. Know who you're calling, why you're calling. Second thing is know what questions you're gonna ask and be intentional about those questions. So make sure that when you're asking a question, are you getting information that you need to turn it in turn that prospect into a deal? And is it a deal that you can progress throughout your sales process? I'm trying to think what would what would be a third go golden knife. I try to at least get people to walk away with three things as much as possible. Gotcha. But yeah, I would say know your target audience, knowing the questions to ask. And I think the third most important one is sales is a game of resilience. And everybody is not going to be quick to cut a check for you because you solve a problem that you think they may have. So going back to like what Dave said, it's all about building a relationship and it takes time. So make sure that you're doing the work up front, doing the research, you're following up. Make sure that when you're following up, you're providing substance, you're providing value with every touch point. And at the end of the day, it's not about closing the sale on every touch point. It's about getting new information with every touch point that you can use to eventually get that person to take the next step, which is either it can be a meeting, it can be going to your webinar, it could be subscribing to your newsletter, whatever the case. may be we gotta learn to we gotta learn to court before we can actually get married the courting process that takes that takes time like you gotta put the work in before you even get someone to say I do.

Dave: 1:02:03

Yeah no I I I I love that you know and you know for me I think the biggest thing that I would I would want somebody you know listener here you know one if you've made it this far thank you you've watched the episode we appreciate you so if you've gotten a tip or two from from Sean or myself that you want to implement in your business do us a favor we want to you know kind of grow the outreach of this of the show so give us a like a thumbs up subscribe and then also share this with your network because as Sean said you never know who's watching you never know who in your network who might see this episode and it might make an impact on your life you know Sean Sean shared some great golden nuggets today and so for me the biggest thing I think that I that I kind of heard is is the the make sure you have a point right an objective for the foot call. And it doesn't always have to be closing like you could just have information gathering or checking you know kind of checking to see if they're still in the market. It's it's very important for you to you know kind of understand that before you come because it takes the stress away from you. And I think again the the second point that I would I would kind of say to take away from this would be you know it's not your problem that they're experiencing. You know you're just providing some support to help them overcome it. And remember that you know when you're having those conversations with them help them build that emotional sort of pain the struggle right the obstacle of it and then give them to see the outcome get that emotional buy-in from them that's gonna help you close rather than telling you know your qualifications your certifications all the support and all the logical things like that doesn't sell the emotion does and I think that was a good thing that we kind of you know chatted about earlier Sean. So so uh again Sean thank you so much for joining me I think it was a great episode glad to have you on hope you you know if you're listening to this you you learned a thing or two I'm sure I you know I know I did or reminders as well so if you are watching this make sure you have that thumbs up button give it a like and a share do all that fun algorithm stuff and if you ever have questions like even now you're like hey I I'm interested in this question drop it down below we'll answer it either you know in the comments or we'll answer it live on a future episode but until then Sean thank you so much hope you have a wonderful week and for everybody else watching we'll see you we'll see you in the next one have a good one everybody