Dave: 0:22

Good morning, good morning, everybody. And if you're hearing my voice and you're seeing me live, then that means it is another episode of the Business Unscripted Podcast. I hope you guys are having a wonderful and amazing week. Dwan and I are here again. We love being here with y'all. And so let's just jump into it. You know, so if you're if you're a business owner and you're or an aspiring business owner and you're looking for some strategies, some tips, learning from our our mistakes, because me and Dwarne make them. Yeah, we we definitely make some. Then this is the yeah, no, for sure. Then this is the right place for you. So go ahead, grab your favorite cup of Joe, or in this case, I got a bottle of water this morning. Let's jump into the show. How was your week? Welcome, welcome back.

Duarne: 1:06

Thank you, Dave. It was a good week. Ups and downs, as we talked about pre-show, more ups than downs. It was a good week. It was a good week. We I finished another book this week. Um really. So that was kind of cool. Yeah, I wrote it up last week and the team decided, had my team decided that my team should go ahead and produce the book ourselves. Since Amazon refuses to let me have an Amazon account, I have no idea why they keep shutting me down every time I load a book. So I'll self-host my own book and give it away myself. So yeah, I wrote a book. It's called Don't Hire a VA Until You Read This.

Dave: 1:46

Nice. So give us give us the two-minute overview.

Duarne: 1:51

Well, look, let's just basically put it this way the subheading of my book is Everything I Wish I Knew Before I Burned Time, Money, and My Sanity Trying to Outsource. From somebody who has been outsourcing for over 15 years, 16 years now, who runs an agency who's worked with lots of different business owners from different parts of the world. I have outsourced to India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka for different services in the past. And I have to say it's my favorite place to outsource is Philippines. But even then, the cultural barriers, just the local business standards and understanding, the communication, it's and it's really taught me a lot to the point where I've realized that the key to success in this industry is making sure that there are systems in place to allow you to get the most out of your team members. And I guess that goes whether they're virtual assistants or not, but the book is all targeted towards working with a virtual assistant. It would really work with anyone who's working with somebody who isn't sitting right next to them, that is a remote worker, that is in their team. And one of the misconceptions that we in the book that I cover is the unicorn. Now I've mentioned this to you, the unicorn, where it's the magical unicorn that can do everything you possibly want them to do. And at the end, if you've got a unicorn, you typically find that they're not very good at any one thing. They're only gonna they're you know, they're a little bit of a jack of all trades, doing a little bit of everything, and they never get any real progress done on any one section of what you need done as well as you'd like. And the dangers and the traps involved in doing that. So lots of other goodies in there as well, but it's written the same way I write my Wide for Growth newsletter. So it's pretty straightforward and direct. I don't I don't pull punches. And yeah, it should be a good read, less than 50 pages. So you can read it in a single sitting if you're really inspired, or over a couple of days. And I hope it helps some people who are considering doing you know some outsourcing or working with some virtual assistants, or people who are just struggling with the whole concept of having a virtual team, they just can't get anything out, you know, get the right results out of.

Dave: 4:23

And the the why do you feel like the the majority of that? Like obviously you're you're in the industry, you're in the business, but if somebody's even considering their first virtual assistant, what's what's the struggle? Like, why do you feel like people can't get the most out of their BAs?

Duarne: 4:38

Yeah, I think the reason is twofold this answer. The reason I wrote the book was because I was just putting out over the last few months a whole bunch of content on my newsletter about this topic and talking about different aspects of the topic and different directions for the topic. And the feedback I was getting was really, really positive. And I was getting a lot of reactions from people who would actually message me and talk to me and say, Hey, you know what? I thought I was the only one. I thought this was just me going through this, I thought these were just growing pains, I thought this was normal. And it really came down to the fact that I realized that the only time we ever found ourselves doing really well with our virtual assistant team, even with me based here, was when we started putting in systems and processes. The systems and the processes have improved our workflow significantly. And I've talked about this before on this podcast. And that was a really key aspect for us to see that when systems and processes are introduced by the client, when they're training and onboarding and starting work with their virtual assistant, suddenly the communication is better, the output's better, the expectations better. And when you start creating SOPs as a client and you're sending them across to somebody to work on, you suddenly have a realization going, oh shit, that's a lot of work that I'm asking to be done. Or that's actually not that much. I thought there was more to do than that, or you find yourself improving your project and then able to introduce when they need to be involved, you know, when the client needs to be involved in that process. And it's very clear for the virtual assistant to be able to see that, and that's something that we found isn't as clear with some onboarding processes. And we've actually in the last six months, since I've been heading in this direction pretty solidly, we've actually turned down a few clients who are looking to get virtual assistants because they didn't have their internal systems ready, they didn't have their SOPs prepared, and we said, look, let's work together in getting those systems and SOPs right, then we can work out what you want to do as far as a virtual assistant. Because the other misconception we found was a virtual assistant can do everything, and it's like, well, that's an interesting point. If you were gonna hire somebody stateside, would you hire one person to do everything in your business, or would you hire the specialty specialty positions to do the role that you need roles that you need done? Right. From outsourcing point of view, you can actually get these unicorns that can do everything for you as well.

Dave: 7:32

Well, and I think that's that's so when you think virtual assistant, the same way that you were back out of. I think the misconception for people is the fact that they do everything instead of the job, like you would create a job description for a posting internally, like if you're at US based, right, and you're posting it to NVD or any of these job sites. So I I think the biggest first step, if you're considering hiring a virtual assistant, would be to one, right, create a specific job description of what you're looking for. And then two after that would be then to take time to then actually, you know, kind of design right their day-to-day. Like what are the actual tasks? What are the outcomes that you want to see? What are their you know, kind of metrics that you want to monitor with them before you even hire somebody? Because one, it's gonna help you in the interview process, two, it's gonna help an organization like yours, Dwarne, actually find the right person, you know. Yeah, whereas if you just say, hey, I'm gonna hire a virtual assistant, they reach out to you. I just need a virtual assistant to help me with admin. Well, admin can mean a lot, you know.

Duarne: 8:42

Absolutely. You know what that you know what the biggest I love that, Dave. I think that is spot on. One of the biggest things that we get asked when we ask, get asked for a virtual assistant from American and Australian clients is this I just want someone who can speak good English. And I'm like, well, do you want them to be able to speak good English or be able to comprehend good English? Right, right. Because there's a difference, and comprehending is superior in all senses when it comes to communication. And if they're not able to comprehend, and it's like you were saying, I I think virtual assistant has become this blanket term for outsource staffing from a third world country or from another country that has cheaper labor hire you know than you can get local. And that needs to be, I think, readjusted because virtual assistant has specialties, it's no different than anyone else. Virtual assistant is just an outsourced staffing solution that can specialize in different roles. Like if you've got one with an accounting degree, you wouldn't get an accounting degree virtual assistant to do all of your graphic design work or your web design and development.

Dave: 9:57

Yeah, I think it should be instead of like virtual assistant, it's like it's so it's more like, hey, I have a I have a virtual accountant or I have a virtual graphic designer. You know what I mean? And and you know, kind of be specific with it. And and I think you're right. And it's weird because it those types of terms happen in general.

Duarne: 10:14

Like you hear the word coach thrown around the same way, you know, as virtual everybody, everybody who's virtual, yeah, internet business, all these different terms that are very generalized. I remember back when I was studying IT years and years ago, it was like, oh, I'm gonna study computers. And I'm like, what specialty are you gonna have? Or what do you mean? Are you gonna do development? Are you gonna do hardware? Are you gonna do software, networking? What's your specialty? Nowadays, there's so many other aspects to it, cybersecurity, etc., that go into it where people specialize. What people I think need to start realizing is a virtual assistant to help you might not be one person. It may be a virtual team of virtual assistants who specialize in different tasks, just like you would hire if you're building an office team back in the States or back in Australia. The only difference is you're hiring people who cost you a fraction of the cost of local wages who work in a different time zone but can match but still but still match the time zone you work. So they'll work night shift if you're a US or early day shifts if you're an Australian client. But it gives you that capability to have these teams that you might be able to afford where you may not be able to afford local teams. And I think this is where there's a misconception. We've had conversations with people, and one more recent one that we had was where initially they were looking for someone who was a specialist in CRM, who was able to develop the CRM out, build it out, build websites for them, create marketing strategies, go through and do admin work and filing as well. And I said, Well, why do you want all that? Well, that's what we need right now. I said, Okay. So after the first three to six months, when you've got all this built out, what do you want them to do? And there was this blank stare of realization where I was like, Oh, yeah, you're right. We kind of hadn't thought that far ahead. We just know this is the problem we have right now. So the realization at that point was maybe that's not the right solution for a virtual assistant. So one of the things that I typically talk about when I start the conversation with clients is tell me three things that you had to do today that you wish you didn't have to do. And of those three things, can how many of those could you view delegated if you had somebody who you could have delegated those to? And typically, one to two, sometimes even all three, can be delegated to a virtual assistant for them to take care of. It's not the old days where virtual assistants would be the ones who would organize your calendar and your email and then you know, training.

Dave: 13:05

They were the actual assistant. That was the thing, right? It was it was all it was. Exactly. And so I I think, like you said, it it's now so ranging in terms of services that you can essentially get virtually. And and so it's one of those things where you just got to be careful. You don't want and like you said, it's a miss, it's definitely a big, big misconception. And there's there's kind of one, I guess, or two ways, right? We can kind of go go forward. The one I think I really want to talk about is the systems, right? Because you talked about it's important to have the system set up. But the other one is another way that you've kind of said it is you know, you're not thinking long term, you know, they're just thinking short term, what they need an assistance on, and in terms of you know, that you know, essentially when you hire a virtual assistant, you don't want to have a hire for a temporary role. Like virtual assistants, you want somebody that's gonna grow with your organization, grow with your company. And then the third aspect that I think I want to kind of cover for the rest of this episode, we can kind of go over all three, is is the feeling of underpayment. And and that I think is a big misconception from US-based owners that I've talked to, right? They're like, oh my god, you're underpaying, like, why would you like you know, child labor, all that kind of stuff, or whatever they want to call it. But that misconception, and I guess let's start there because that's a big one. And it was it was enlightening to me, right? Because obviously you're in the Philippines, right? Me and you talk a lot. And my enlightening point came when you and I were having a conversation, and you had mentioned that you had just gotten DoorDash from McDonald's. Yeah, and and you had told me you're you know, you got like a Big Mac meal, you got like a happy meal for your son, and then you got a cut in a couple other items. And I'm like, man, that must have cost you like 40 bucks because that would it's what DoorDash would have cost over here. And you're like, no, it's only like seven bucks American. I'm like, what? And then and then I and then it made sense. It's like, oh, okay. So like, you know, somebody making for you know five dollars an hour is like somebody over here making seventy to eighty thousand dollars a year, you know, it's a completely different cost of living.

Duarne: 15:12

It is, and that's the difference, right? There is to give you an idea, let's let's use fresh produce because that's a really easy one. What's a kilogram of well you use pounds there, so I'm not sure what pounds or ounces, yeah. Yeah, okay. So a kilogram of pork is roughly about 400-420 peso. Now that translates to about eight eight dollars thirty US okay, for a kilogram of fresh pork. Chicken is about 250 peso, which is about five dollars a kilogram. Now, these are fresh straight from the butcher or straight from the supermarket. They sell so much volume that it's not like these things sit in storage in the storage shelf for very long. They will gen they'll generally slaughter on how in-house and then serve directly. So it's a very high throughput because there's a very large population. What's a kilogram in pounds? Like, how does that equate to uh a Google search?

Dave: 16:22

It's 2.2 pounds. So one kilogram is 2.2 pounds.

Duarne: 16:58

Okay. And what's a pound of pork worth in the US right now? Like, let's say pork chops.

Dave: 17:03

So that is a good good question. So let's see. Let me just do a fun Google search, right? Because I don't I don't pay attention to that stuff. So it's like I just go and put it in the cart.

Duarne: 17:14

I don't even know.

Dave: 17:15

Yeah, and there's so many, there's so many things, right? So it looks like at Sam's Club, you can get pork chops for like three dollars a pound. So essentially for 2.2 pounds, it would be about six dollars and six dollars and fifty cents.

Duarne: 17:29

Okay, so that so when it comes to fresh produce like that, it's roughly about the same. That's great. Now we go to the McDonald's.

Dave: 17:36

But yours is McDonald's, but yours is fresh, I can get it. Yours is fresh from the boot from the butcher, right? So, like you're getting it right from the source, whereas this is you know kind of cut in the store type of thing, you know what I mean? So you know, I would I'd rather have it directly from the butcher for sure.

Duarne: 17:53

Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know that stuff's probably got dropped off that morning, it's getting butchered in-house and it's getting taken care of quickly. If we work on McDonald's now, cheeseburger fries drink regular size, is about a hundred and nineteen peso, which is at the moment, if you buy from their online app, which is about two dollars and ten cents for that whole meal. Now, my guess is that's about what five or six bucks for you guys. Which one was it?

Dave: 18:29

You're you broke up for a second there.

Duarne: 18:30

The cheeseburger, fries, and a drink.

Dave: 18:33

Yeah, over here, over here, because it well, or it's like two cheeseburgers, a fry and a drink, is more like seven or eight bucks, I believe, at McDonald's.

Duarne: 18:41

Okay. So here's where it gets that's and McDonald's is considered one of the more expensive premium solutions when it comes to fast food. For you? If I go for for here in the Philippines, yeah. So if we're over here, so if we go down uh to a local canteen or a little kitchenette style business that sell does cooks the food up fresh and then serves it, you can get a meal for a dollar, maybe two dollars, which is rice and they call it an oolam, which is like the main. So you get one or two mains with that. If you're getting it from inside of a mall, you're gonna be paying a little bit more than that. But it's the meals you basically can go in and get them at a much more affordable rate, and like chicken and fries, like my son loves chicken nuggets, right? And it's like two dollars for McDonald's, chicken nuggets, a box of six. So when you start looking at it, eating is a little bit more affordable here in the Philippines. Things like gasoline and diesel is actually probably on par with the US, but majority of the people here use public transport, and the public transport is much, much cheaper. Like I can travel across town inside of a taxi or a private taxi with no, you know, like a private vehicle, like an Uber. We call them grab here. I can travel across town for an hour inside for about 250 pesos, so that's about five bucks. Okay. Now you're probably spending a lot more than that to be traveling inside of an Uber or a taxi.

Dave: 20:26

A lot of yeah, so a lot of taxis charge you $4.99 just to open the damn door. You know what I mean? Uh and then Uber Ubers are the same way, you know what I mean? Like Uber Uber, you know, typically a ride on Uber is no less than 20 bucks, uh, you know, for where you want to go, you know what I mean? Wow. Yeah, I'm sure you can get some for like 10, but that you know, you're going like from here to the convenience store that you could probably walk. But yeah, most of them are going to talk 20, 20, 22, 23, 40, 24 bucks.

Duarne: 20:53

So let's take this one step further. We look at boarding rooms, boarding houses with rooms, right? Yes, they're not super glamorous, but it's a very common thing. So imagine like a dormitory-style room where you get it just a single occupancy. You get an average price inside of the city where I am in Dabao is around about two to three thousand pesos, sometimes up to four or five thousand peso, if it's a bit of a nicer area. So peso, one one thousand peso is worth twenty dollars roughly US. So 20 US dollars per 1,000. So you can get it as low as $40 a month to as high as $100 a month. A month. To $100 a month. So put that in perspective. When you're paying your rent and it's taking up, and that's the costing of it. If you want to get a house, you can get a house, rent out a house or a condo or a unit or an apartment from $5,000 all the way up to $100,000 peso. So depending on how prestigious you want this to be. But the average, you know, condo unit in our area is about $8,000 to 15,000 pesos fully furnished. To get a house, like you know, depending on where you're getting it, you can get them as low as 5,000 through to you know 12,000, 15,000 peso for a modest house in an okay area. You that's in a sub proper subdivision. You can also rent them in the less desirable areas for cheaper than that if you wanted to. So cost of rent is also significantly less when you start looking at it. So everything has there's certain things which are on par, but then there's a lot of stuff that falls below par and the cost is much lower on it. And for the majority of things that are gas, it's cheaper.

Dave: 22:48

Right. Well, and that's and if you think of if you think of gas, right? Like you're on par with the US, but as you said, because the majority of people don't drive, right, or don't have you know gas vehicles, so the cost needs to be higher because of the demand, right? The demand is lower, so the cost is higher.

Duarne: 23:03

Well, the other thing is if they do have a vehicle, it's typically a motorcycle, and we're talking about 125 cc motorcycles is the average, which means they're probably going to put you know a couple of dollars a week worth of gasoline in the engine, you know, sorry, in the tank. So it's it's not that expensive to run those around for a week. So when you start looking into it, the vehicles match the salaries that they can get. A brand new scooter, Yamaha scooter, you can get here for about 60,000, about a thousand two hundred US dollars. Brand new Yamaha scooter registered on the road, ready to ride. So we can find that for 1200 US dollars. Wow, that's not bad. So when you start that's like their base models, but that's still perfectly susceptible. It's one of the most common motorcycles in this country, and it's called the Yamaha Mio 125, sporty, and it's a very, very common bike. These things last a long time, they work really quite well, they're very easy to use and a lot very easy to maintain, very cheap to maintain, and they're super affordable to run. When you start looking at these sort of economies, that's what you start to see. More affordable transport options that use much less gas, affordable priced fooding food options. You've got food, like I can go to a restaurant in town here and pay 8,000 pesos, $200, if I want to to go and eat there.

Dave: 24:41

You know, we got we got places like that, you know what I mean? You know, yeah, and they're more high-end, but or actually, let me let me let me take that back. Yours is high end for $200, right? Here, $200 for like a family of four or five is just like going to like a Texas Roadhouse for the for, you know, which is not high-end, right? High-end, you know, food over here in the US is gonna cost you you know five $500 or more, depending on who you're cooking.

Duarne: 25:07

Well, you know, I totally hear and you know, one of my clients who comes over here regularly, he's from Australia, he's got himself and one employee back in Australia, and he is he told me last time he went out for Christmas dinner, they went to a buffet and they spent 300 Australian dollars between three 350 dollars Australian to eat dinner, have a nice meal, have some drinks afterwards. We took out 25 staff while he was here in the Philippines, and we spent $180. And that was everybody was full, everybody got drinks, everybody got food, there was leftover food, everybody got dessert, right, and everybody enjoyed it, and we're there for a few couple of hours to do that. I think so.

Dave: 25:59

So hopefully we've kind of you know, kind of yeah, I was gonna say, but yeah, hopefully we we've we've definitely dispelled the myth right around the the style. So if that's been a hesitating force for you in terms of well, I just feel like I'm underpaying people, you know, you you put it in perspective, and when you're you're paying somebody that four or five, six dollars an hour, you know, that's like you paying somebody over here in the US, you know, 60, 70, 80,000 for the most part.

Duarne: 26:25

Well, let me put it in let me put in one more thing in perspective for you, Dave. The minimum income for an average for an average laborer here in the Philippines, I think is between four and six hundred peso a day. So we're talking, what's that, eight to twelve dollars a day US, roughly, for the whole day. Now, when you put that into perspective, four to five dollars an hour, even up to ten dollars an hour for some roles, that's quite a lot more than you can earn local in these sort of laborist jobs or retail or hospitality roles or customer service-based roles. So that's why the BPO industry and the virtual assistant industry loves working on these international accounts because it is generally a higher salary that's offered to the employee. They can go out and they can do more. A lot of virtual assistants.

Dave: 27:20

And the one thing I'm cautious with that side, right, is that, and then I want to go to some of the other stuff before we get too deep into it, right? But I would say make sure that the company you're working with is reputable because I've heard where you know a company, you're maybe you may be paying eight to ten dollars an hour and you're thinking the majority of that's going to your VA, but really only like 25 or 30 percent of that's going to your VA, and the company's keeping the rest. So really make sure that you're you know with a reputable company, Dwarren. Obviously, you know, you're definitely a reputable company, but there are ones out there that'll keep the majority of your payment for themselves and and you know continue to pay your VA, you know, that $8 a day or whatever, you know, $10 a day. Where again, you're they're probably gonna then leave, you know. So you got to keep that in mind, too. They're probably gonna leave for another you know, international talent if they need to.

Duarne: 28:10

So that's a really good point. We've got clients that have been with us for a decade now, and one more 12 years now, he's been with us. And his oldest employee has just gone nine years, and he's previous, and he just had one went nine years, and she finally decided to go look for a job somewhere else just for a change. She, you know, not for no reason, then she just felt like she needed a change. So nine years working on the same account. I've got a couple in my direct team for the web design and development portion who have been with me for close to 10 years now as well, seven years was on a couple. So when you look after them and you pay them right and you give them the respect and the perks, it makes a world of different. So, yeah, definitely work with the agency, make sure they understand the client, what your needs are, but also make sure that you as a client understand how they're treating their staff. One thing we do that's just simple is we give up and we tell clients this right up front is that every staff member gets a paid day off for their birthday. That one little thing, but it's just that's huge, right? I mean, for somebody who goes, Oh, I feel special, it's my birthday, I get to have the day off. You know, if they don't, if they can't have that day off, they can take that day off within a month of their birthday, they just have to file the leave request for it. And so they can line that up with a long weekend or something if they want to.

Dave: 29:37

So there's all different ways. You find a lot of the companies around here that don't do that. I mean, there's a lot of companies that don't that that don't even think that way, you know what I mean?

Duarne: 29:46

Exactly. And it's just little things like that, right? I mean, so yeah, I think you're spot on there. It's do the research yourself, interview a few different companies if you're not sure. And don't just settle. And definitely, definitely have yourself a job description. This is one thing we're insisting on. And if you don't have a job description, we're actually going through the process now for clients where I will interview the client and then prepare a job description based on the conversation that we have for review and sign off to make sure we understand what the role is properly so that we can hire the right fit for the role, ask the right questions to fill the roles. Because then when it comes time for that next step with the systems and the processes, we know that this person is going to be capable of following those systems and processes because they've got the foundational skills required for that.

unknown: 31:18

Right.

Dave: 31:19

No, 100%. And I think, you know, the the the logic step here is going to be what what do you feel? And we're going to make a transition right back to the the systems that we were talking about.

Duarne: 31:33

Yeah.

Dave: 31:34

Besides the job description and and and all of that, what do you feel are the first maybe like two or three systems that are really important for somebody to be successful with a VA?

Duarne: 31:46

Right now you need to have a clear communication system. You need to establish the clear communication system. That communication system needs to cover the methods you'd like to communicate, whether it's instant messaging, and then you have to have a long form messaging format and in and an in-video voice format option as well. Typically you can use one system. So if you've got like Google Business Suite, you could use the meet for the meetings, chat for the instant messaging, and then use the email for back and forth and sharing documents. Or you could use Office 365 if you wanted to as well for a more secure in solution. But communication's a big one with the amount of times that we hear like I know you personally you like using WhatsApp and email. They're your two pref preferred options and then Zoom when you need to do video calls as well. So we establish communication techniques. It doesn't have to be one or another. It just has to be something you use in your system already to communicate with people. So it's not too much of a burden for you. You don't want to use a communication technique or system that you check once a week because that just completely you know defeats the purpose. The secondary part of that communication is be very clear with your messaging. So clarity is always going to be your friend make sure whatever you're asking it to do you know it rather the your VA to do whatever the time I'm thinking AI I'm like no it's the same methodology I use for AI though, right? Very clear instructions. If you give the context with the instruction and the outcome then you can't really go too wrong. So it's all about getting that communication right. I think that's your foundation. Once you get that communication technique right the way to do the communication participate in the communication and encourage them to communicate back the only dumb question that in my opinion is the one that doesn't get asked. Now I do have exceptions to this is if I've already gone through this multiple times you should be taking notes because I don't like to repeat myself too often. So that's the other thing you make sure that you're communicating and don't do this trap when you're dealing with your virtual assistant where okay you get that yeah because a lot of times one question when you're giving them a chance to say yes they're just going to say yes. Instead switch it on its head a little bit and say right so tell me what so tell me what you're going to do.

unknown: 34:40

Right.

Duarne: 34:40

And get them to explain what they're going to do. And if and you're going to pick up pretty quick if they get the project or the task that you're giving them and that's going to really help you get a better outcome.

Dave: 34:50

Well what I what I found about that too is is making sure that obviously you have a good note taking system you know whether it's an automated system or you know or just use the integrated one and you know whatever system you use. I know Google's got an integration you know Zoom does obviously but have a good follow up I think well right I think what goes along with the communication is is going to be the like the follow-up system. And so on top of that as well like I I've I added in I add in clickup right because it's also then your project management system. You know and and so within that I would say make sure that you have the steps broken down correctly if you need to have recurring tasks that you want to have them set up like you know have all of that because again and and this isn't meant to be like you know bad but the majority of the people that that are going to be in that virtual assistant role unless they're specialized like roles like for people the general VA is not going to be somebody that's going to think outside the box. They're not going to be somebody that's going to you know be able to create things themselves right they follow instructions. They follow process that's why they're in this role. And so what you as an owner leader of your organization has to do in order to make them successful is to give them each one of those steps and as you mentioned the clear guidance of what is expected.

Duarne: 36:20

Yeah.

Dave: 36:21

And then follow up with it. And so having a good system like a click up that's a project management tool slash you know feedback system all of that can be done in one place. And so you know to kind of pay you back so communication is the first system. You have to make sure you have that developed however you're going to do it. And don't try to switch back and forth you know what I mean like have it clear like hey quick questions during the day WhatsApp right longer kind of follow up end-of-day check-ins like that's email. Yeah you know and then you know our our VA touch bases, okay, those are going to be done on Zoom. And then you're going to manage all your tasks and track your time and do all that on clickup. So when you have that in place it gives them direction as well. And so if you don't have that yet you have to figure that out you have to document okay here's how I'm going to do these things with my virtual assistant. And then once you do that then go in and dive a little bit you know deeper into that and say okay here's how I want to set up my project management system. You know here's the tasks that are going to happen how often I need them to happen you know what is the outcome you know where they're going to post it because all these things can be done in the instructions. But I'm assuming and I'm hoping yeah so and and I'm not perfect you know when it comes to my systems I know you know you and I talk about it a lot we definitely got to improve a little bit.

Duarne: 37:36

We're always improving. And I think you know what I think that's a great point. Systems are not rigid. Systems are designed to improve and if you find your systems are not working don't be afraid to change them. Don't be afraid to improve them and encourage the people who are working within your system e.g. your VA or your staff to suggest improvements. If they are feeling that it's broken suggest an improvement. If it's something that they're suggesting and you have a genuine reason for doing it that way, take a minute and explain why you do it that way and you may find they have a different realization and or they may say okay well based on that then maybe we could do it this way. But for those people who are out there who are feeling like oh this is sounding expensive and for software or very daunting what you're describing there is a project management system could start out as a simple spreadsheet that could be broken up into task management which you can create yourself or download a template or you could go and get yourself free licensing for up to three or five accounts in a lot of cases with software like Trello, Asana, ClickUp, Monday.com, all these different platforms out there that do project management, there's piles and piles and piles of them. The trick to fall that we fell into for a long time with project management systems was we wanted one that was an all-in-one encompassed system that did everything we possibly wanted including the communication portion. The moment we realized that let's just focus on getting a good project management task management system. Everything else is a bonus if it's there we realize holy cow we don't need all that other crap we just need a good project management system that people know how to use. And it makes it a lot quicker and easier to set up. And like you were saying Dave when you create your processes and your systems you just go through and refine those steps add more steps improve that you can assign in those steps the milestones who's a who's responsible within whether you or your VA for each step so that there's no confusion. The clarity is there and it's very clear for both parties to know well that's being held up because you haven't finished that what's going on there? Can you give me an update on this? It also gives you the ability to as a client to log into that project management system and see where a project's up to without having to go and ask obviously you're going to have to go and ask if it's not where you expect it to be but it gives you that quick visual so you can then decide whether it's worth your time to go and ask the question or not.

Speaker 2: 40:16

Yeah.

Dave: 40:17

When you think of that is there any you know in your experience right what other systems if any do you feel like are necessary like obviously it's just a lot more systems that need to be built but is necessary in order to kind of you know maybe just get started with you know their first assistant even and even you know an employee like it doesn't mean you necessarily have to be an outsource like it just it'd just be the what do you have in place right for even your first employee in your business.

Duarne: 40:43

For me it's what's your upskilling and internal training look like because when you bring on somebody like we talked about earlier they may be in line to do a certain task for you initially but that job is probably going to progress into something or develop and evolve into something bigger or a little bit different. So if that's the direction you want to take that employment then create an internal process for upskilling there are so many free courses or very budget friendly courses with Allison.com, Udemy Coursera there's so many options there where you can upskill your employees give them an hour a day to go and do upskilling and follow up with them and see how they're doing it. If you've got somebody who's you think would like to you'd like to move into a project management role but they're not a project manager yet then or you just want to see and get better at project management put them through a project management course. If you want them to get better you know or be able to help you with graphic design put them through the free Canva Academy where they can do Canva up, you know, improve their Canva skill sets. What that does is also encourage your employees to want to upskill want to improve their skill sets. We had this situation just recently where I got a call earlier today where one of my clients was driving his friend who's in the same industry as him back from the train station where he'd picked him up they'd gone out for dinner dropped him and he his friend and his wife off and he just happened to pick up a call from me while he was in his car and he said I just wanted to tell you my my guy who's in the office he's VA just completed a diploma in internet no sorry IT support and I'm like oh really he goes yeah he said that's like a 30 hour course that's and he said and he passed it. So you know what I did I said what's that he goes I bought it up in our team meeting that I was really proud that he'd gone through the effort to do that over the last four weeks and I also told him that I would pay for the certification. So now I'm going to pay and it was like $20 US that he was going to have to pay to buy the diploma certificate for that particular employee. That employee what do you think they're feeling right now they're getting so much gratitude appreciation and they get a certificate that they can use for their future and they've got a skill that you can use within the job which means he's now got a progression path where he can do a little bit more than what he came into the company to be able to do initially so I think you've got to look into that you've got to have a plan long term because if you just suddenly decide to change direction and say look I want my VA to go and do graphic design well guess what? If they're an accountant or an admin they're not going to be able to do that off the bat. They're going to have to do some training they're going to have to do some practice they're going to have to do something. So have an upskilled plan in place. And I think that works with regular employees as well because you the way you keep employees these days is you've got to keep them interested.

Dave: 44:03

You've got to show you they have to be engaged yeah they I remember the study but I remember look like you know a couple years ago you know the fact that like less than half I think it in the US less than half of the workforce is engaged with their employer you know because of the reason that nobody pays attention to the culture anymore. It's one of the things that I did you know for my team was one of the you know I always at least once a month we went out for as as a team for lunch. Yeah and the idea was that one they picked the place you know each did they got to rotate and each person got to pick you know a place that we went out to lunch. We didn't talk business when we were there. The idea was that we were there to you know kind of just you know hang out get away from the office and yeah exactly socialize you know be important be the the other thing I did to kind of help with the team is is our team meetings were led by the team. You know it wasn't me kind of dictating right or here here's the team meeting it was led by the team so that everybody felt like they were getting involved they all kind of gave their updates you know every week it kind of rotated and everybody's engaged at that point. And the other last thing I think I did other things but like the other thing would be at least I felt like this was the biggest thing that I did was you know I was always there right I was always open for questions. I never demeaned any of my people because things were you know didn't go didn't go right and and I made sure that in the team meetings I gave that kind of celebratory you know you know praised in public and if there was an issue more often than not was it was behind closed doors right you know maybe we if it was a group issue we talked about it as a group but if it was like an internal like one-on-one it wasn't like calling people out in a meeting I don't think that's that's a good way to look at I think that's a good one.

Duarne: 45:48

And look when you when people generally they struggle with this concept when they're working with a remote team especially when it's across cultures like dealing with a Filipino based virtual assistant for example they're a lot more sensitive and emotional than an American employee typically or an Australian employee. I'm naturally a very direct talker and what I found when I cut here is that I upset a lot of people because I was too direct. When someone does something and they they send something through on an instant message and you're looking no that's wrong and you start typing you're thinking and you're smashing those buttons stop send an email and said and say look I'm just going to email you about this. Right. So you respond to them initially go write the email then sit there and think about the email you're writing because if you're writing an email it's a bit like when you get into a fight with your wife your girlfriend and you're doing that whole text backing back and forth nonsense and then you suddenly go shit why'd I say that if you do if you get too emotional and hike and then respond and then don't think about it you don't get enough thought put into it and then you might reread and go that's not what I really meant. Oh that came out the wrong way instant messaging can be horrible like that but if you go down the path of an email you can be a little bit clearer with your thoughts you can delete a few lines before you send it and you can delay sending it across so sometimes have that little oh my god under the breath get annoyed get frustrated but then write the email and have that conversation and set the you know set what was wrong and go back and deal with that because we all get those moments where we get frustrated by the mess that message it comes through. So just find a way to communicate not directly straight away because you might find yourself saying something or if you're rushing to a meeting and you're reading you might misread something might have got lost in translation you go back and read it later and go oh shit that wasn't as bad as I thought it was but you might have by that point have already offended somebody so yeah I typically find myself going down that path I mean and here's the cool thing with AI I have this thing where I go make myself sound less like an asshole so if I if I'm really frustrated I need to vent I smash it into chat TPT now make now tell I need to write this email make me sound less like an arsehole and you know create me an email and it'll go and it'll make it for me right because sometimes you need to vent and you need to get your clear you need to clear your head and get that thought out and then see that there's a better way forward. So use your tools to help you with that but yeah that would be my biggest thing just when you're dealing with somebody because you will get frustrated dealing with outsourced staffing you will get frustrated dealing with regular staff there's going to be times where you go it would be quicker if I just did this myself remind yourself is it going to be quicker doing this yourself if it's a task you have to do once a week once a month once every day or is it quicker to actually take the time and train somebody how to do that job so they take it off you forever even if they don't get it right one two three times given the extra guidance and help them so they get it right afterwards because then it's not on your plate. It's something that they're handling themselves.

Dave: 49:42

And I guess that's another you know a quick tip right you kind of hit right there is that if you're planning hiring anybody whether it's a VA or internally there is going to be some time investment from you as the owner or the leader you know to one either put together training whether it's recording specific videos and I know there's some some tools out there you know for like scribe I think scribe is one of them or scribe down is another one. Scribe scribe's a good one because it actually like documents everything too while you're doing it. Or even like doing Loom like just video yourself doing what you want them to do and then just have it there and create either a Google folder with the links or a document with the links but it does require some time from you up front to make it worth your while so whether it's you know the the the two to five hours or whatever for you to start documenting the process like just document.

Duarne: 50:38

Can I add to that too one there's an extra step here which a lot of people don't think about too if you're not getting the output you want from your employee or your virtual assistant you can also ask them to go and create a loom showing you what they're doing so they can send you a loom back of what they're doing so you can then watch it and go, oh that's why okay let me just fix that and you can jump on a call send them an email or shoot a loom and tell them what they you know how to how to do it the way the correct way or see where the gap is what they're doing. Because sometimes like for me it's really hard when you're busy but sometimes if you've got the time jump on a call get them to do a screen share get them to show you what they're doing and then you can correct behavior but if you don't have the time for that or you know just get them to shoot a video through Loom themselves they don't need a paid account to do it and then send that link across to you so you can review it you may just be surprised some people don't think the way we do and we have this bad habit of just assuming that people do everything the way we do. And if you want to you want to understand that better go and try and give IT instructions to your parents and then remember how frustrated you get trying to get them to follow simple instructions like run a virus check or run Windows updates or you know download a firmware for their new printer. All of these things which are really simple for us to do are pretty monumental like they they put time aside to do that. So don't sit this is really important for I think everybody don't underthink what your skill set is because a lot of people just assume that they have a skill set and everybody has the same skill set or everybody understands things the same way they do. Most people don't understand the world the way you do they don't work the way you do they will never process information as fast as quick as you do because you're the expert in what you do especially if you're a solopreneur. So you're gonna have to build a team up around you that you're gonna have to train on how you think and operate and how you're and to build those tools whether it's an AI like we were talking about earlier with the projects or the custom GPTs to help them understand how to communicate like you.

Dave: 53:48

But the the biggest the biggest piece that you have to realize and this is sometimes part of that to get over it was a you know kind of an idea for me because again I was one of those things it's like wow like I knew I gave that to somebody when I worked for somebody else that was an entrepreneur that was just starting out but 95% of the people that you hire are not going to be as bought into your business as you are right it's not theirs. There's no ownership there unless you are one of those like five to 10% of businesses that you know probably have employee ownership. But if you don't and and they're never going to be bought into your business like you are they're never going to feel you know they're not again I've said this before they're not staying up at night right because payroll is due and and you're not sure if the money's gonna be there because invoices are outstanding. They're not the ones that are that are stressed in over the weekend because you're not you don't know where your next leads are going to come from or what your marketing is or anything like that. You know that's you. And that's and that's because it's yours. It's your baby right it's your it's your you know system or your partner you know if you have business partners but no employee you can't expect that from that is so unfair to expect them to want the same level of you know kind of success that you do because they're never going to get it you know working for you because it's not their business. They're not growing something that they get value on they're growing they're trading time for money right now. And that's perfectly fine for a lot of people you know what I mean like people want people are okay with that. So but you can't have that expectation that they're gonna be bottom for them.

Duarne: 55:16

It's not a business it's a job for them. And that brings me to one other really important thing if you're going to when you have employee whether in any instance you need to create KPIs you have no idea how many times I've spoken to employers and I said what's your KPIs in this oh we don't really have any so how do you measure and evaluate if someone's doing the right job you have to have set outcomes that you are measuring them against which they are also aware of so that you can actually then clearly articulate whether they've actually met the expectations you've set now this is especially important when dealing with a virtual assistant because a virtual assistant might just assume you're not yelling at them. You're not telling them they're doing the wrong thing all the time so I must be doing the right thing or but the reality is they may not be doing everything you need them to do because you may not have told them what the real KPIs you want them or you're tracking them by. So be very transparent with what your expectations are and make sure that you you're clear with that because if you're not clear with that it's like getting a salesperson and then not telling them what their sales target is they're never going to reach a sales target they're just going to assume I got a sale this month well no I was aiming for you to get three sales this month oh but I didn't know that they're always so get those expectations how many times have you worked for somebody that you know if if you're watching you listen to this how many times you've had a boss or maybe you know sometimes even in a relationship in life do you find out that there is an expectation of you that you that was never expressed you know it's just like and then they're like well you should have known it was an expectation I know I'm not you're like if you have an expectation of me and this is in business this is in life this is in a relationship whatever but if and and this is how you can start to you know kind of change right is if you have an expectation of somebody make sure that you've explained that expectation because if you have it you cannot hold them accountable to it because what's in your head and it's the same thing like you know the funny meme right you know with with with your wife you know she wakes up from a dream that you cheated and so now I'm so bad at you because you cheated in the dream and it's like well you should have known that you were going to cheat my dream like what what the I'm so bad at you yeah you know or or you know even even you know when it comes to relationships or friendships like well you know I I wanted I expected you to you know kind of give me a call when I posted this it's like what do you mean like you now that if you one they might not even seen it because of the way Facebook and algorithm work. So it's like if it's something that you need or that you expect from somebody tell them you know and and don't like when it doesn't happen get all mad and then or or with an employee you know get frustrated because they they can't like you said they can't read your mind well it's like we were talking about earlier right it's like I was mentioning one of the biggest things you need to understand when working with an somebody is you have to have clarity in your instructions. You have to have clarity in what the output expectations are you have to have clarity around what the offer and what you need them to do. If you don't then you're all swimming in the same pond but you might be swimming in different directions and that's not going to help any of you. So be very clear take the time when you give an instruction set if you're initially when you start working with somebody especially if you're used to doing everything yourself take a minute look at your instructions and then ask yourself if someone gave me that instruction set would I know what to do with it because is there missing parts and if you're not sure put it through Chat GPT and just say hey check my check my instruction set here tell me if this is clear or if I've got anything in here which could be misinterpreted and let it be the judge to point you in the right direction. The one of my favorite ways of using ChatGPT is what I call the brutal judge where I tell it don't be nice to me be the brutal judge and tell me what the hell I've done wrong and because like you know what I hate how chat you know all of these AI platforms like ChatGPT they give you a pat in the back and say yeah you're great good work. It's that you know it's it's just not no useful. And when you deal with your employees I mean if you're giving them unclear instructions make sure you're giving them clearer instructions. And if you're not sure or if you've had a situation where you're giving what you thought was clear drop it through ChatGPT and say hey look is this unclear in any way if I'm giving this to my Filipino virtual assistant to action or I'm giving this to my design and development team to action can you tell me if this is unclear and see if there's gaps in your process because you may surprise yourself you might just make assumptions on certain things because you are who you are and you know what you know but others don't know that I am so responsible for doing that so many times I sit there and I'll give instructions and they'll go oh what what about is this and I'm like really and then I go through my notes and I go okay shit I didn't tell you. Okay my bad and I used to be that guy who would sit there on the instant message go I told you this already sir I went back through my notes and I couldn't find it all right I'm gonna check I better not find it I go through yeah yep you're right I was wrong egg on my face sorry so yeah I think check your processes make sure they're super duper clear make sure that your communication's as clear as you can possibly make it and you'll have a much much better experience with your virtual assistant and staff especially if they're remote staff and one thing I like what you said earlier was make yourself available but don't go asking questions that are just yes no questions when you're working with virtual teams ask them open ended questions that require them to answer in a way that you know that they've actually understood what you've asked that'll really help you. Really help your sanity. Yeah.

Dave: 1:01:54

No, I can 100%. I mean, so with that, I mean, my my biggest thing there is you have to realize, right, that you are your number one employee. We've said that before. But with the expectation, you have to be commutative, uh, going back to what you said. Yo, communication is key, whether it's employee or not. But Darwin, so going back to your your book, right? Your soon-to-be-launch book on systems and VA, is there any other things around system that you feel is important for somebody to be considering, right, in order to build, or what's the biggest stumbling block that you might see a owner run into when they're trying to create these things?

Duarne: 1:02:39

Look, for me, I think you need to talk to somebody who actually has an idea around what a system looks like for a business. Now, if you're very low on funding and you can't work with a specialist, like there's a great guy in Australia, Dave Jennings, who writes a lot of systemology, was one of his books that he wrote. He has some really great stuff. There's a lot of other authors out there. Dave, you're pretty good at systems as well. You can guide people on that. I've had my fair share, although I don't do a lot of consulting these days. Jump into Chat GPT or any other AI platform and just sit there, turn the dictation feature on so you don't have to type this stuff and just talk to your microphone and say, look, I'm a business owner. This is my business. This is I'm trying to create processes and systems around what I do. I really need some help. This is my type of business. This is how I do it. These are the sort of things I do. Be very descriptive. You can sit there for three minutes talking if you need to, then hit go and see what it comes up with. Because what and then just do a brainstorming session and then just pick one thing and say, look, if I could pick one thing to improve my process today, what could it be? Can you help me build that out? And then just go back and forth. You're smart enough to know how to build the process because you've built your business. Every person who's in business, I feel, has a capability of building their own process if they're given the right frameworks to do it.

Dave: 1:04:08

Well, I think it goes back to everything that we talked about before. I think the number one thing that I hear from people when it comes to lack of processes is lack of time. And I think it just, again, it goes back to the same old adage that we said here on probably hundreds of times, is that if you don't control your calendar, your calendar will control you. And so all it does is it's putting it in your calendar and scheduling it out. It doesn't take rocket science, it doesn't take you know a whole week to create these things. You know, ultimately, if you if you go out there and you give yourself, let's just say, even an hour a day for two weeks to create processes and systems and and guidelines if you're thinking of hiring your newest new VA. Isn't that worth it for you to be able to then when your VA is hired, to have a set in stone, or not it's set in stone, but a set in place process that your VA is going to be more likely to be successful than for you to just continue to go on and and you know be in the fire and be in the weeds all day. And then when you need to hire a VA, it's like, well, I don't know how to help you, but here's what I need you to do, go do it.

Duarne: 1:05:14

Which one would you rather do? I've got a client who's put on a VA because he knew he needed help in one of his businesses, and it just so happens that he got so busy that he's probably been lucky to spend, I don't know, five percent of the time the VA's been on, which has been about two months now, with the VA doing training. And I said, I keep calling him saying, Look, your VA is bored out of their mind. They're an office-based VA in this situation. I said, let's get him doing some things, let's get him doing some extra upskilling, some training, so he's got something he's doing because we don't want him to be bored. We don't want him getting used to the idea of this is what it is in this role. Because you know what? That causes people to lose interest, be disinterested, disconnect, not last, you know, and find the time. If you don't have the time to train somebody, like one hour of training in a day should actually be more than enough. In fact, my VA, my executive assistant, I don't do more than 30 minutes worth of training in a single day because that's too much. Because I need to train and then send them off to do something. And sometimes there's days worth of work to do, so I do check-ins instead. So you might sit here, and this is one thing I think people it's like that old adage it's there's so many systems and processes I have to build in my business. Well, find the most pressing and build that. Once it works, build the second one, then build the third one, and just keep building them until you finally get the systems and processes built that you need. But just break it down into little systems and build out one at a time. It doesn't have to be this massive system. Like I mentioned earlier in the podcast, we were originally looking for a PMS system, a project management system that did everything we possibly wanted it to do. In the end, we had paralysis where we just kept trying these systems. A month later, nah, move to the next one, nah, move to the next one. We finally settled on one, and it was not all of the tick boxes, but you know what? We made it work. It works well enough to get out to do everything we need to do, and the things it doesn't do, well, we work around them. Sometimes get just starting is better than just sitting there planning. So do the planning and then plan how you might do one new process a week. If you've got 12 processes, in 12 weeks you've created 12 processes, but you spend that whole week implementing that new process and make sure that your entire team is involved in your process creation.

Dave: 1:08:12

Yeah, anybody who's your own.

Duarne: 1:08:15

Anyone who's a stakeholder, the amount of times I have seen no stakeholder involvement in processes, and then stakeholders get a hold of and go, This is not what we do. So there's a disconnect between the owner or the manager and the stakeholder. That's and you've got to be able to make sure that the stakeholders get their play because maybe the stakeholders are doing the wrong process, but you don't know that if you don't include them in the process. You will definitely learn a lot when you when you learn how broken some systems you thought were really good are. Trust me, that's what I've found in the last 12 months. Holy shit, I thought that was a good process, apparently not. Exactly. Well, what's customers who work with you on your processes going? So this wasn't quite the experience we thought we were gonna get on the onboarding. Really? What happened? Well, this oh ah, thanks for your feedback. We will improve it for the next person. Right.

Dave: 1:09:25

So, what what you know, as we kind of wrap up here, what would be, you know, or what are you hoping that people take away from today's episode?

Duarne: 1:09:35

If you're not sure what it means to have a virtual assistant, if you haven't had a positive experience with a virtual assistant, get in touch, get a hold of my book. It's free, have a read of it, and see if you can pick up one or two tips that can help you be more successful with a virtual assistant in the future. But the biggest tip for me is have some systems, have some processes, have good communication, and have some patience. Yeah, your patience will be tested. But you, once you master all of those things, or at least some of those things, you will have a really positive experience with your virtual assistant, and you will probably be able to build a team that'll help you be successful in whatever direction you're heading.

Dave: 1:10:24

Yeah, I love it. I love it. I I think you know, you don't have to be overwhelmed, you don't have to do everything yourself, but you do have to take the time. You do have to take the time to set up everything and in the end, it it it's only it's worth a little bit of time investment up front to do it, but in the end, it's it's gonna save you so much more, as well as make your business that much more valuable. I say this to a lot of people, especially if your goal in your business is to you know kind of sell it, right? Exit if everything's in your head and all the processes in your head, you have nothing to sell because nobody is gonna buy your brain. You know what I mean? But if you take the time to get it out on paper, you know, get the processes out, get all the systems out on paper and document, that's what's valuable. That's the actual value that you're building. And those things can be developed over time, right? You know, and and you know, you don't have to develop everything today. But if you do need some assistance and out and outsourcing, take the time, sit down one hour a day, schedule it. It's the biggest thing I could say manage your schedule. And don't, and if you're it is you know, if you're still working eight to five, right? You're only working 40 hours a week and you're a business owner and you're not where you want to be, you're doing it wrong. You know, I I try not to do less than 50 hours a week. And that's probably not I I should probably be doing more, but you know, with kids' events and all that other stuff, but I minimally try to do 50 hours a week only because there's so much to do, there's so much to get done as a business owner, even with VAs and support. Yeah, there's still things that you have to do, especially if you're you know, you're small, you know, there's a lot of hats you gotta wear, and you can't get that done in a 40 hour. Right, if you're if you're wearing your own, if if you make if you have the revenue you got coming in, you got the owner's pay, your bills are paid, and you're like, you know what, I'm comfortable. This is not that message is not for you. But if if you're like, I want to grow, I want more, I need I need to do more, and you're still trying to do all of that in a 40-hour work week, your priorities aren't lined up, you know, with your actions. Your actions don't talk about your priorities, you know.

Duarne: 1:12:31

And don't and hiring a virtual assistant is not gonna solve all of your problems overnight. It's it's just it's like trying to say AI is gonna solve all your problems, and automation is gonna solve all your problems. A healthy dose of AI, automation, and virtual assistants will give you a total solution, but none of it's worth a damn if you don't have the systems in place to be able or the processes to be able to get the outcome, desired outcome that you need. And if you find yourself, if you're that person who sits at the desk first thing in the morning with your cup of joe, open your email, then find yourself distracted on YouTube for two hours, then you need to, you know, probably work out a way to not distract yourself because a virtual assistant is not going to be the right choice for you, so that you can continue doing that practice. You want to be able to leverage that person to achieve more. That's the key for having a good virtual assistant. I've met people when I've interviewed them to see if they're a good candidate for a virtual assistant who's like, I want them to do this, this, this, this, this, this, and run it on this business, this business, this business that I'm associated with. And if they've got time, I'll get them to do this and this for me as well. And I'm like, okay, and what are you gonna do? Oh, I'm going to do speaking engagements. And it's like, oh, okay. Um, I think you need more than one person to help you with that goal. But you know what? Each to their own, at least if they know the at least if we can give the advice that we're giving here today, and and some people take it, you know, advantage of that advice that we're giving, I'm sure they're gonna see some great results.

Dave: 1:14:19

Right. Yeah, for sure. I I think you know, just take one or two tidbits. Like you don't have to again, you know, the biggest thing that we say is try to get one or two things out of every episode that you could begin to kind of consider, implement in your business. It's not, you don't have to do everything, and it's not rocket science. So if and here's how you can help us. So if if you did get that one or two things as you're watching the video and or the replay, and you're like, you know what, that that's impactful. If you could help us by sharing the video, right? Sharing this podcast so that we can extend our reach. We want to reach more people, and we can't do that without you all. So we appreciate you kind of doing that, as well as make sure you like and you follow along again. We go live every Friday morning at 8 15 a.m. Eastern, or roughly around there, depending on if Warren can uh can shut up enough for me to hit the go live button. But other than that, and then if you're a business owner and you want to come on and let's say you have some educational informational topics that you want to talk about that you feel people need to know about, there's a link down below the episode. Click the link and you can find and schedule yourself as a guest. We'll reach out, confirm that with you. But we want to make sure that you know, if you like this, share it. Because somebody else in your network may also be going through the same struggle who's a business owner, and you may not know it. But if by you sharing it, maybe the algorithm will put the information in front of them just when they need to hear it. So until then, Juaran, thank you so much for joining me again. Great conversation as always. And for you watching, we love you. We hope you have a wonderful and amazing rest and end to your week. See you in the next one.

Duarne: 1:15:54

Take care. Thanks, Doug. See ya.