Show Kickoff & Year Milestone

Dave 0:01

Welcome to Physics and Crypto Podcast. We're here to share real life insights, practical strategies, and the added lessons that we have learned from our home state and trick that we have been in your community. So whether you need help with operations, accountability, financial balance, details, or maybe just getting your mindset right, we are here and it's the right spot for no fluff conversations. So grab your favorite cup of Joe. Let's jump into the show. As I say, let's jump into the show, ladies and gentlemen. It's another amazing Friday morning. And Dwarne, I'm not, you you're you are warm all the time. So for us here though, in you know, Cleveland area, it's gonna be like 70 degrees today. So it is a beautiful, gorgeous day. You cannot complain. But but as I say, any day above the ground is a beautiful and amazing day for you to have an opportunity to do what you love again. So here we are. Hope everybody's having a great week. You're in the right spot. As we said kind of in the intro, we're here to talk business, different strategies, different experiences, obstacles that we've gone through in our businesses, how we've helped others overcome obstacles in their business as well. So if you're an aspiring business owner, or maybe you're a business owner and you're just looking to level up or just want some fun banter, like you're in the right spot. So welcome back to another episode. We're at episode 51 now, and we're here every week, every Friday morning at 8 15 a.m. or sometimes a little bit later, depending on technical issues. But we're here live every single week, man. So it is amazing. Glad to be here. Hope you guys are having a great one. If you have questions, drop them down below. So we'll answer them live. So include them down below, and uh we'll get those updated for you. So Darwin, Ben, thanks. Uh thanks for joining me for another another week, brother. How are you?

Duarne 1:51

Thanks, Dave. One more week, and we will after this, and we'll have uh hit the whole year. It's incredible.

Dave 1:58

Yeah, yeah. And actually, if we think about it, like this is technically, I guess, like the year because I had one week off where you know, because we had the baby. So this would have been episode 52, which would have been like a complete year of shows. But it's it doesn't, it does not seem like it has been 12 months since we kind of started this kind this kind of journey together. So but I love it.

Duarne 2:21

It's interesting, isn't it? So what's it's a community? Yeah, it goes quick. Just keep turning up every week and just you know keep chipping away at it and look at us now. It's pretty incredible.

Start Before You’re Ready

Dave 2:33

I I think I think we started, you know, and we might have mentioned it last week. We weren't perfect, you know, we didn't have any of this overlay stuff, and and you oh you it just kind of was was there. And I think we as we said last week, don't wait for perfection. Like just get started. You know, if you look back in any anybody at their first trial or their first video or their their first work meeting, et cetera, like you're gonna suck. Like, and that's the that's the point. You you you learn, oh, okay, we got to do a little bit differently. All right, we we did this. Now you're gonna learn again, and you're gonna keep learning lessons. And that's the beauty of life, the beauty of business is that you continue to learn, and then as you learn, you make changes and you make improvements. Now, if you're not willing to make improvements, then it's maybe not in your best interest. But I don't know. What do you? I mean, what do you think? I would we're we're definitely still growing, we're still learning for sure.

Duarne 3:34

Oh, look, absolutely. I mean, it's like anything, all right? You take one step forward, and you every day just try and take another step forward, and eventually you'll get to the destination. You could sprint there, but it's like this was never about being famous for us. This was never about trying to reach millions of people. This is this is always about just reaching a few people and helping a few people that actually, you know, our content helps and connected to. So, and and we like you said last week, we were just doing this on a regular, and we're doing it before we even join today again. Regular banter, catch up, what's happening during the week. It's like, let's just go live and talk about this and share opinions and see what happens. And I'm like, Yeah, sure, all right, let's do it. Didn't really think too much of it at the time, and yeah, over 50 episodes later, and look where we're at. Obviously, some people enjoy it. We get the comments, we've got some people that tune in, and you know, we've got people coming and joining us on the podcast now and getting involved, which is great. So, yeah, it's fantastic to see. I'm glad we're able to reach people and help them.

Dave 4:47

Love it. Well, I want I want to talk about a win. Well, it's not even my win, it's it's a client win, you know, and you may be experiencing this in your business. You're you may be, man, I want to raise my price. You know, it's one of those things that a lot of people are so afraid of doing. However, it's needed if you want to make sure that you are profitable. And so I'm gonna give an example. It's a client, they had a big up there, they had a big sort of opportunity come at the end of a season last year, leading into this year. So it was kind of like a trial last year. They they impressed, they they met all the expectations, even exceeded a lot of them. But when we came to having the conversation this year of extending that and putting something more in-depth in place, you really had to go through and understand what are your costs? Like, what does this look like? And so many business owners want to jump to the conclusion of, well, this is like $200,000. It's gonna be $300,000 to my business. Because they look at top line, they look at gross revenue. Yeah. But in reality, that's not that's that's not the important number. The important number is what are you actually gonna make gross profit? So after you pay all of your expenses. And so we went through a little exercise and we won't get to into the the nitty-gritty here, but at the end of the day, we determined that at the price of last year that he had done like the trial at when we actually dove in and figured out what it's gonna look like, he would have been losing money every instance of this job. And so it was really scary when we actually then projected out what the new rate needed to be. It was scary to him to be like, wow, I don't know if he's gonna go for it. You know, I don't know if they're gonna go for it. And long story short, you know, we kind of talked through the what to say, how to say it, the importance of explaining why there is an increase. You don't just go, oh, by the way, like here's the price increase. No, you explain it. You have, and in this case, like there was a legitimate reason why we needed to raise the price. We don't just say, oh, we just need to make our profit, nobody cares. But there's a lot of other costs that have to be considered that once you have an understanding of what that relationship looks like, you're now able to analyze that and put that in place. And long story short, you know, we didn't get the full negotiated, you know, our initial price, but that's okay. You're you know you're gonna negotiate, but they will increase their price 25%. Um so now, and it's not like he's making you know 75% gross profit now, it's a good profit margin that's gonna cover a lot of his things and it's gonna help his organization, right? We're adding two, three hundred thousand dollars to the business, you know, at a gross profit of you know 25%, which is awesome, right? Because before you would have been breaking even if not losing money. And now he builds a relationship and he continued to grow as they're growing as well, because they're a growing company too. And so it just reminded me that as a business owner, it is so important for you to one, understand what are the actual costs that are going into the uh delivery of your service or product, whatever it is. So many people overlook it. They just think, oh yeah, we're getting 40% margin. Are you like when was the last time? You know, and is that right? Like, you know, should you be pricing it a little bit more because your margin should be more like 60, 70 percent versus 40? Like, why? And and I know I've said the baseline is you want to be at you want to look at your industry average. Okay, and that's where your that's your baseline, that should be your baseline, but you should be striving to do better than gross profit margin of your industry. So if your industry is 50%, your goal should be like, how could we get to 60? How could we get to 70? You know, you don't want to be mediocre, and so you have to think a little bit differently.

Hidden Costs That Kill Margins

Duarne 8:46

Well, interesting, like a lot of the things like we found when we did this exercise year, 18 months to a year ago, was that we actually found that we've always forgot to factor in the extra staffing resources from the administration administrative side. You know, these are real costs to the business, which we never factored into the profit margin on services that we would know. We'd be like, oh no, we just need to, it's gonna take this many dev hours, this many design hours, this is how many hours of me. Okay, cool, we're good. But we'd forget to factor in that someone's gotta generate the invoices, someone's gotta send the invoices, someone's gonna you know, chase that invoice, somebody's gotta make sure that you know all these other processes are done in the back end as well.

Dave 9:32

But a lot of that is supposed to be covered, right, in your gross profit margin. So but I think if we if I remember correctly, it's high enough, right?

Duarne 9:41

Exactly, it eats into it. So suddenly that 20-25% margin, which initially looked fantastic, and you're like, Yeah, I could look, that's great, that's a great margin, it becomes 12.5% because half of that gets eaten up with operational expenses. Or you start looking into like, you know, what things are getting really busy, I need to put somebody else on. Uh if you're running too slim on your margins, then you may not have a budget to put someone on. You it may look very daunting, it may look like, well, you know what, it doesn't make any sense for me to put someone on because that's basically gonna wipe out my profit margin.

Dave 10:19

So uh thanks for subscribing, brother. Appreciate it. If you're uh I got any questions about anything, feel free to drop them. The idea, right, is you have to understand where you need to be. So if you want to make a net profit in your pocket at the end of the day of 15%, right? You're like, all right, my goal is 250,000, 15% of that, I'd like to make you know, $30,000, $40,000 profit. Well, if you're trying to operate at a budget of and your gross profit is at 25%, and you're trying to get to 10% or 15% net, right? Like how you gonna get there? That means you you're only leaving yourself 10% of actual operating margin. So you really have to understand like the numbers and everything that kind of goes into it to really understand are you pricing yourself right? And this is why it's so important to do quarterly reviews. Sometimes I mean monthly reviews is good to see if there's any sort sort of trending and anything like that. And if you haven't done it in at least six months, you're you're way far behind.

Taxes, Profit First & Cash Control

Duarne 11:25

So well, I mean, it's interesting too. I mean, because there's other things that'll sneak up on you. Like back in um in Australia, company tax is like 27 and a half to percent, I think it is. It's almost 30 percent if you round it. And if you're a consulting business that's predominantly been selling services, then that's a high profit business, technically, because you're not paying, you're the one doing the work, and besides your salary, you're not pulling anything else out, typically. You have to build up expenses, or you get to tax time and you realize, well, I have to pay 30% for everything that I earn. So, you know, if you haven't been putting it aside, you haven't built in the margins to allow for that, if you haven't built in that, you know, you should be factoring in spending into your equation as well, because sometimes spending can offset and reduce your tax liability so that you actually pay less tax and come out with more money at the end of the day. But I mean there's all these other factors that come into play. So we really need to understand.

Dave 12:34

Right. But when when we think of, and this is part of like the profit first stuff that we talked about, right? So many people default to that. Hey, let me go spend money because I'm gonna save money, but in reality, did you need to spend the money? Like there's strategic, and that's why it's called strategic tax planning, not just tax planning, right? You don't want to just go, I'm just gonna go spend this hundred grand to save 20, right? But the hundred grand was kind of excessive. I really didn't want to spend it anyways. And then you're like, well, wait a minute, where'd all my money go? Well, it's because to save 20, you spent an extra hundred. You know, you don't need to do that. That's why it's it's strategic. So is it more or less, right? I'm gonna spend this money in January, let me pay for it in December to get the tax benefit because I'm cash basis. Now that's strategic, right? But if you're just gonna go spend money just because you want to, that's not strategic. And you're actually losing, and that's and you're taking money out of your own pocket to do that, right? So you're basically saying, you know, I'd rather go spend this money because I don't want to pay the government some money and I'm gonna take it out of my pocket. And that's where I think a lot of people misunderstand reducing their tax liability by spending, is they just think they're just gonna go spend. And really, at the end of the day, you're just costing yourself out of your own pocket and your profit margins.

Duarne 14:23

I like that strategic tax planning, and that's it's interesting because it's not a conversation that comes up very often with your accountant. How am I gonna strategically spend, you know, so I can get the best value for my business and you know, obviously pay less tax. There's a balance in there somewhere. And like my one of my clients back in Australia has got three businesses, and he's basically realized that one is just never gonna be something that he can get away with lots of purchasing, because there's just nothing required, it's all consulting, and so it's he's just living with the fact that it's gonna be very heavy on the tax, whereas these other business he can offset a lot with purchases because it's a tech-based business and he does need a lot of technology, etc., for it to be able to build it. So, but you're right, you have to you shouldn't spend money you don't have, and you should be very cautious. That's one thing I like about the profit first system when you talk about it is you're putting money into the places that it actually should be, ready for spending when it should be, and you still keep the profit aside that so you know that this is my profit level that I'm comfortable with and I'm happy with, and I can focus on trying to improve and strategize to make that bigger over time. And one way of doing that, like we talked about, is increasing your pricing if possible, or making sure your margins are at the right margins. So, yeah, there's lots of different other techniques, but it ties in back into that profit first, like you said. There's a legitimate way to help be strategic in your saving and your spending and your storing of your money effectively to make sure it's ready to use.

Announcing Price Increases The Right Way

Dave 16:12

Yeah, it you're you're taking control, and I say this on your calendar, but it's essentially your cash balance as well. Like you're taking control of your the money in your business and giving it an actual purpose. You know, you couldn't imagine like money in your business is just like another employee. It's either working for you or against you. And by just leaving it in one account, it's essentially gonna work against you because human nature is, we've talked about this, your the Parkinson kind of effect, right? Is your spending is going to expand to the resources you give it. So if you have one operating account, that that's your main dev account, you spend it, you know, as long as there's money in there, you're gonna keep spending. Whereas when you can control that and you break it down, now you're at now the money's actually working for you. You know that, okay, I am actually gonna this this money's for tax in three months. I had to pay my tax estimate. Boom, done. Tax estimate's gonna go up. Or here's my profit. Like, and this is the biggest misconception about profit. So many people are like, well, Dad, I took profit distributions, you know. I take profit distributions distributions all the time. I'm an S-corp. I only pay myself a salary of this and I get this much a month. Then I then the question I always like to ask is, Well, what did you use that on? Well, I I paid a car payment, utilities, I paid my mortgage. Well, that's not that's not profit. That's your lifestyle. That's your salary as an owner. Like that's your lifestyle expenses. So, profit, on the other hand, when you take a profit distribution from your business, it should be used to celebrate everything that you're doing on that quarter and that you did during that quarter. You know, whether you worked 12 hour days, five days a week, or you were working weekends, or you or you had to get called away from a kid's sporting event, like that's why you have profit distributions is to celebrate and then celebrate with the people around you. Because what that does now is it gets everybody involved in the success of your business. So if your kids are going out and you guys are going out for a weekend away, or maybe you go to Disney World if you have a really good quarter, right? And you had a really good profit distribution. Hey, we're going to we're going to Disney this quarter because we did awesome. And this is why, by the way, dad or mom had to be right working till 8 p.m., or that dad or mom had to, you know, work on a Saturday because a client needed me. You know, if you're just getting started, right? And you're not at a place where you know you can delegate a lot of stuff. But now everybody isn't is actually involved and they understand the efforts that go into actually being a business owner and making something work successful. And so that's a profit distribution. You know, and sometimes it could just be, hey, I'm just gonna take you know my wife out to a nice steak dinner because we don't normally get to do it. That could be a profit distribution as well. It's something out of the ordinary that you can say and look back on and say, you know what, I had a great quarter, or you know, we we we made some movement this quarter and I feel good.

Duarne 19:09

And that and that's what it's celebrating in the wins, right? The big wins, the small wins. Yep. Yeah, this is the key. It's so interesting, like so many, like you're right. Like, if you're just taking the salary and considering that the profit, then you're just surviving. You're just doing it for regular, you know, living expenses. So, yeah, if you live beyond your means, like let's say, for example, you've got yourself a nice boat, and you've got yourself a couple of nice cars, and you have a beautiful big house with a mortgage, that might be what you want to spend your profits on. But for a lot of people, you know, you want it you want to be able to say, hey, look, I had a boom a month, I had a boom a quarter, I had a boom a year, and I I'm gonna take the family out, I'm gonna go and do something special. I'm gonna do something that I really want to do. I'm gonna go and get something nice for myself or for the family. So, and I think that's really one of those things that is important to note. And we talked about it before, celebrating in the small wins, you know. Go and take your wife out for a date. Go and you know, when you go to the when you go to the butcher next, maybe you celebrate by getting that wagyu cut instead of the regular cut of steak that you would normally get. You know, not just something a little bit different to celebrate for yourself, something to feel good. So, you know, you can sit back and appreciate it. You know, if you if you're a drinker, maybe get that, you know.

Dave 20:51

Sorry, we we don't we don't prank call on this on this podcast, wrong podcast. Sorry.

Duarne 20:55

Did he tones?

Dave 20:58

Maybe you might have changed your name too. But you get calls from jail. Sorry, sorry, sorry. We digress, yes, yeah, yeah.

Lead With Value, Not Emotion

Duarne 21:11

I mean, like there's I think um profit in business is one thing that you definitely need to do. I would actually challenge everybody to in business to ask the question do you know what the profit in each one of your products and services is or your primary products and services? And when was the last time you reviewed that? I mean, if we take a look at just world events right now, cost of oil, cost of diesel, cost of food, cost of power, cost of energy, all of these things are going up. And if they're all going up, have you looked into the cost, you know, what your actual real costs are? Maybe your courier costs have gone up if you're getting products delivered or picked up and dropped off or drop shipped or something. And have you factored that into what you're doing? Maybe you're traveling to a job site because and you know, you have to pay a higher rate for transport now because you've got a diesel truck and you're paying an extra, you know, higher price at the um Bowser. You know, there's all these different factors that come into play, and all of these things can affect your margins. So if you're not regularly checking those margins, then you've you've got to be problem like we talked about I think a few weeks ago one of my clients back in Australia he hadn't sorry he hadn't reviewed his pricing with one of his largest clients for three years and when he finally said look I've got to do it now he's got to jump through a pile of hoops to prove why it's got to go up because his price increase is about 20% increase on what he was previously on. Or if he'd done the increase each year for those he could have gone up five to seven and a half percent and gotten up to the same place where he is now instead he's trying to get it up to where it should have been if he had done those increases during the time right he'd been asked for the client to hold back because they weren't in a position at the time to do it but he's now in he's not in a position not to do it. So he's forced to do it.

Alternatives To Discounts That Win Deals

Dave 24:09

And they understand it but they're asking for a lot of justification for it as well now of course well and that's where reg one regular price reviews should be done in part of your business you know whether it's every three, six months at least a year, right? But you also have to understand the relationship. There's a lot of pricing considerations that go into place. One, you kind of have to look at that relationship that you have with your clients is it personal? Is it more you know so are you a consultant? Are you a you know mentor advisor anything like that where you have one-on-one interaction with your clients if if that's the case in then it it needs to be a little bit more you know timeframe you know which is a second piece we'll talk about in a minute. But the second, you know, if you're like a SaaS provider, you know, like maybe you just provide like a software like now it can be a little bit more informal. It doesn't have to be you know you're not going to try and call out to every single one of your you know SaaS customers and let them know there's a price change. But when it's a personal connection now it needs to be a little bit more formal a little bit more professional. And so then you think of okay that's my relationship with my clients all right what's the time frame I should be looking at you know and so again if it's a large price increase or there's an increase that you know it's a more personal connection, you want to give them a little bit more time. So you don't want to just do it and spring it on, oh by the way, next time I invoice you it's going to be a price increase. You probably want to do that like 60, 90 days out. Whereas with a SaaS, a little bit more informal, if the price only goes up a couple dollars, yeah, maybe 30, 45 days is fine. You know, and and you're and so the timeframe matters. And then the third piece to consider when you're doing a price increase is the medium. How are you going to let them know that you are doing a price increase? So again, if you have a personal relationship with your clients it should be more in the form of either a phone call or a meeting to actually walk through their new pricing. You know, and this gives you the ability to explain to them why it's going up. And you don't want to just say well we have to make sure we maintain our margins. Nobody gives a shit right your clients don't care about you. They care about them. So what you need to do is really highlight the value that they're going to continue to receive. Now if it's somebody like your client there that said well you know we really can't afford a 20% price increase well what we could do is I could drop you back to this other package but here's what you're going to lose by doing that. You know and now it's on their decision which plan they want to go with. Hey these are our new plans I'll grandfather you into this one for like the first three months but then at the end of that you have to decide where you're going. And now it's not on you. You're not forcing them to pay you more you're saying here's what you're gonna do. You're either going to upgrade and we added this extra piece of value to this level of service or you can downgrade but you're gonna miss A, B, and C. And now it's on them to decide what's important to them. You're not forcing them one way or another. So that's the personal side and then again if you think of like SaaS now it's just an email you know or it could just be posted as a banner too you know depending on the price increase. I mean think of McDonald's think of you know they they put a poster on the on the door you know by the way effective you know January 1st we're raising our prices 10% you know or 25 cents whatever it ends up being and nobody gives you showing up five cents. Yeah yeah we we we go into we go into McDonald's oh shit uh I thought it was only a dollar last time now it's a dollar 25 that's a 25% price increase but nobody cares because it's a quarter you know but they don't realize well that's still that's still a 25% price increase but nobody bats an eye but in business when you ask for a five 10 15% price increase because your costs have gone up across the board now it's like oh my God you're trying to rate me right you're trying you're trying to take you know you're trying to you know wreck me over the coals whatever it ends up being whatever you so the idea here is that you know think of those are the three main things. One what's your relationship with your clients two what's the time frame that you want to give them to announce the price increase and then three what is the medium and then you based on your relationship pick those and then you let them know effectively and then the biggest thing is if you are doing a big price increase highlight the value like that's the biggest fourth piece is value. You either here's the new increase but here's the new value or if you don't like that you can always downgrade but here's what you're losing.

Add Value That’s Low Cost To You

Duarne 28:32

We had a situation today one of my clients was on a call with me we're having a video call and he got him in an email through and he got a little bit frustrated okay and I said what's going on and he's like well look I got a I got a client they got a new uh admin manager business manager who's running their business happened to be a veterinarian and I'd previously spoken to the owners of the same business before about a website opportunity so they're actually really nice people and very reasonable and he had put their phone system in place recently and they needed to set up their messages on hold and they like 10 of them they needed to do for different purposes and there's this fee he has a small fee it's like I don't know it's it's like 30 bucks a message or something and there was pushback he quoted like oh yep so it's gonna be $30 a message blah blah blah this email came through while he was on the call with me and it was like this is ridiculous. I don't know how you can justify these prices I could go and get these from sub from other places much lower prices I thought these should be included with what we're paying for their service they're paying $99 a month for the service they're getting so it's not like it's a very expensive service to start with it's but it's reasonable and uh he's getting all stroppy and he's like on the call he's like oh I've got to reply to this I'm so annoyed and I said I'll tell you what let me have a go and I did a little dictation into ChatGPT told him what I wanted to say and I told it all of the steps that are required in order to get to where we need to be to deliver each one of those services for that $30 and outline that we're basically just covering the labor to do that for you. But you can get it for free if you like we'll give you the instructions so you can do it yourself. And you're welcome to go and do it yourself and upload it yourself and take it on yourself to do it and know and and that'll be free for you. He got an email back four hours later saying all right we'll go ahead and do it. Thank you so there was an understanding at that point of what the value proposition was and initially his initial reaction was like emotion emotion emotion and I'm like no no just take the emotion out of it for a second let's focus purely on the value proposition that you bring to the table talk about the value proposition and see what when did you hear that like take a moment that the motion out of it where we must have had a recent I don't know what was that that was like maybe a session a few weeks ago that we had two episodes ago we talked about that yeah yeah that's it and you're right and you know what sometimes in his case he'd um he went and had lunch and while he was off having lunch I wrote this email and sent it to him said here you go you can use this if you need to and he came back to me on a later on a call and guys oh you know that was great you know they said they're gonna go with it he said I was gonna go in a very different direction. I said I know you were going to go in a very different direction.

Dave 31:54

And it's and it's really important and this isn't even when you're just like pricing increase right because this was more or less like hey quote me on this job and it is so important to highlight the value of what you're bringing and you don't just say here's what we're doing here's the price far too many people they don't understand what you do no matter what you do that you know Darren nobody really understands what goes into the back end of a website nobody understands what goes into an automation or a form or anything like that. A lot of people they see it they think oh that's got to be easy to make it should only cost like X amount of dollars and in their mind they've already made that before they even talk to you. But this is why it's so important to understand and break things down by the steps or the scale of the support that you're giving them because you need to build that value up in their mind. And like you I love what you did there right because it was like hey by the way like here's your options either here's our here's what we're gonna do here's all the value we're gonna do here's everything that's got to go into it the different steps that go into it or I can give you in part of your plan I can give you the instructions and your team can go do it based on the the level that you're at which one do you want to do? And of course they made the decision of well we don't want to do it right we're gonna offset it. Now for your a little suggestion for your but for your buddy you can share him this right would be include a higher level of service that does include some of these things every quarter. So you know maybe it's 150 or whatever a month but they get one or two of these upgrades every quarter or updates that you can help them install.

Estimating, Follow‑Ups & Automation

Duarne 33:42

So I totally agree. In fact it's interesting we had a a job I was quoting on today and yeah James you're right the emotion definitely comes into play and you know it is like a child for a lot of people it is like you spend more time in your business working on it and and this is why a lot of founders struggle with scaling and growth and handing off responsibility to others because you gotta take the you got to take the emotion out sometimes emotion got you to where you are so you're in some cases so you're like holding on to that but you're right thanks for the comment James but yeah I was like I had another situation today where I was quoting out a client and one of the rebuttals that came through was like we were offering a 30 day warranty on a project a software project that we were delivering and they were like oh can we get 60 days it takes us a little bit longer to get feedback in our company and I'm like well no because if I give you 60 days means I have to have those developers sitting there for 60 days I factored in 30 on the original scope not 60 so here's what I can do for you rather than just say no I can't do it we will offer you instead an alternative put us on retainer and because you've got other projects to deal with and then we can take care of that on the retainer or option B, we'll give you a maintenance agreement where we will basically fix those problems you have outside of the warranty period. Let us know which one fits you know suits you best and these extra little steps is you're not blanket you're not saying no you're just saying I can't do what you need but here's an option that might work for you which one do you think is going to be the best solution for you right and it was interesting because I've been playing around with this technique a lot this last week I had another scenario where I went through client asked for a discount on a website it was like a 25% discount which is fairly significant. And I said look the amount of work that we're doing we can't do that. Here's what I can do gave him a 5% I said look I can give you either a 5% discount on the website cash or I will give you a six month maintenance and security package which we normally bill out it and it was like twice as much as the no four times as much as the discount right there I was offering and I put it to them I said these are your two options which one would you like well and that's the other maintenance I was going to say yeah the maintenance I mean I mean I always got I before you even said I was really good about like a thousand dollars that they were they set the maintenance program right yeah so and that's it they accept it and what and the interesting thing was this we offered them a six months maintenance I know what's gonna happen at the end of six months month seven they're gonna start paying for a maintenance plan with us because they're already going to have seen that the value of that is right they're gonna see that the value for that is well worth it and it's designed in such a way to make their life easier so it's better to not devalue the original product but to give them an additional product and give them an inclusion of it.

Dave 37:21

And yes I'm still I say this all the time right and I say this all the time don't discount your services never because in your mind now that becomes the value that you're worth in their mind that's the value that they tell other people that you're worth so and more often than not a discount has to be 30 to 40% before somebody even considers you know if if they weren't if they weren't going to buy and they're really restrictive of buying and really hesitant to buy it's got to be the 30 40% before they even consider it. So and that's dollars out of your pocket because no matter what your costs are the same and so essentially if you're taking a discount it's coming right out of your pocket at the end of the day. But what you did and this is what I agree with is add some sort of value to the package that is value to them. So in this case you offered six months of a support agreement now to them the value is because what you would typically bill it and what it's going to renew at is correct. Like you're not inflating that value just to say oh by the way I'm giving you $10,000 for the value is an add-on you're saying well I'm gonna give you the first six months of this for free and then after that it bills out at $199 a month or whatever it ends up being. So for six months that's $1200 and in their mind shit I'm getting $1200 for free. As you said my 5% discount that I would have given you was only like maybe $300 I'm gonna go with the four times you know and I'm gonna get the I'm gonna get the $1200 free and I'll pay full price. Now the beauty of what you have to you know you may be thinking well Dave Dwarne like how do I pick what do I do as an add-on like I don't want to just give away my service like I don't want to do that. Well you pick what is something that you have one that's going to increase the likelihood of success for that initial offering in this case support agreement boom it's the best thing you could offer if you're doing things like Dwarr's doing but maybe it's a access to a mastermind maybe it's access to a free training or something that you're adding that you're charging for that's going to help them be more successful in your main program. Now make sure it's low cost to you the owner right so if it's something that's evergreen that's perfect because then you never you're not paying anything for it. You know in your case dwarren you know you may be paying like an extra like hour or two but obviously you know if they don't use it you don't have you're you're not you're not paying for it. So there's no expense related to it.

SOPs Beat Shadowing And Guessing

Duarne 39:40

So that's why on your end you make yeah you make sure that the cost that you're giving them is probably something along the lines of like you know a couple hundred bucks you know well and but the key of this too is I mean if you s if you can like the service that we put forward we get an extra six months after the delivery of a one one and done product to give them a value proposition on what it's like to work with us long term. And then that can become a monthly recurring solution. So I mean like if you look at somebody like let's say a car detailing company very very easy one that they could be doing is we'll give you a free tire shot you know or you know we'll give you a free you know brake rotor clean we'll remove the wheels and give them a thorough cleaning you know your brake discs pads you know whatever you know do something or an underbody cleaning something that's something where you know that they're probably gonna come to you later and go you know what can I get that service that you did again?

Dave 40:46

How much is that normally oh it's an extra 50 bucks can I get that can I add that onto my package sure you can because it's right or you are you in are you throwing like an extra yeah you throw in like an extra like car wash or something like hey in three months I come back and I'll wash it. I'm not gonna detail it right but I'll wash it because you're again you're staying top of mind that's the that's the whole idea is that you're you're keeping them in front of you as the business and then you're getting the opportunity to make that impact build that relationship and extend that relationship. So James said something here too you know easiest way to get out of the motion is to get it written out make it into a process and a system uh which makes it objective have everything in production base bidding everything and have it set up you know set markups all and ready. And I think the idea here and I've mentioned this because I actually helped another client do this where they thought they were getting a specific margin on their jobs we went back we actually did a review process and it found out that they were only getting about half of the margin that they were getting that they thought they were getting and so it's because everything was in their head they were using an outdated number they were using you know they weren't including all their costs to get sold we turned it into a process. We built out an actual estimate form that now they fill in the actual numbers that go into their cost that's for each estimate and then their margin is now built into that because now they enter I want to get 45% margin it pops out this is your invoice price based on everything you estimated. And by doing that you don't have to think and here's the other caveat of that now by getting it out on paper you don't have to be the one to do it as the business owner which we were talking about pre-show as well because your whole goal yes is that now he can go if he really wanted to and bring in an estimator and he doesn't have to try and get everything out of his head and train it or the estimator doesn't have to you know call him and say hey by the way like what's this or what what what would you do in this situation? It's all in the process it's all in the system. And so now that's one other thing that soon he can get off of this plate because now he could pay somebody a commission to do all of that. Now he's not coming out of money unless there's actually the actual jobs that are there to work. And so it's a beautiful thing once you begin to start thinking of these different options to realize that you don't have to be the I wear everything hat, right? The chief everything officer as I like to say you have to truly understand where can I look at my processes how can I get them out of my head how can I document them and then how can I delegate them that is the importance it's interesting too because also once you start documenting like that and building those systems what you're talking about there can just be a simple spreadsheet with your formulas in it.

Keep Procedures Current Or Risk Failure

Duarne 44:19

I've got a simple one that I built for outsourced staffing I know based on how much I can charge a customer versus how much I can pay for a staff member and maintain my operational costs and profit margin that I minimum profit margins I expect. You know here's people once you've got that you can build automations you can build uh custom GPTs with that information and that formula in there you can go over and build yourself a Google Gemini gem with the automation sitting in there so that when you do have these scenarios you can play it I had one today I had an outsourced technician who came in asking for more than what we'd originally budgeted for for a client. But because I had my spreadsheet ready I was able to look at my spreadsheet work out based on what he's asking for to what that meant for an increase for the client and say look that's what it actually equates to. And they were like oh okay cool and I was able to answer that on the fly rather than say look I'll get back to you and you look so much more professional and it looks like you're actually being very when you've got those systems you can be very accurate and you're not guessing and oh shit I was put on the spot I just said a number and it was wrong. I mean how many times have we done that how many times have you been caught in the and you go and you put a number out and you go oh man I shouldn't have said that I didn't factor in this this and this so the System magic once you actually get them in place.

Dave 45:53

And like you said, like it's it's good to start with a spreadsheet, right? I'd rather you get up and running and do something in terms of like getting started on a spreadsheet. But you kind of highlighted it. There's so many other important steps after that. That once just because you sent an invoice doesn't mean it's the end and you just kind of let it go. You have to get out there, you have to follow up, you have to, you know, kind of see what is the next one. Did they get a chance to review it? Are there any questions? And so, as a business owner, you have to have these sort of systems in place, which is what we're building with it. So he's got this estimator tool now, and then it automatically, in his format, right? Because he used to do QuickBooks. He used to have to do the estimate, talk to the client, go back to QuickBooks, enter the estimate, send it to the client, then wait for the client to then approve it in QuickBooks, and then he would manually then turn it into an invoice. Well, uh think of all the time it goes into that, you know. And by the way, QuickBooks, you're really limited in how you can format your in your estimates. So we're building right now for him to follow up on the estimate form the actual whole flow. So now once he hits submit on the estimator, it's gonna send an email to the client. Hey, by the way, fills in the document. Here's your estimate in his format. Here's your estimate. Either, you know, click here to approve, you know, let me know if you have, or you know, click here to you know submit changes or click here to decline. And then depending on how it responds and how they finalize it, now you can then go in and have okay, if they hit approve, it automatically creates an invoice, you know, and then with that goes into the second piece, which is now you collect a deposit. But then there's follow-ups. So once you send it to them, you know, you follow up in 24 hours, you know, and then in 48 hours, you see, you can ping yourself to say, hey, John Smith hasn't signed his contract, go reach out to him. And then now you get pinged on your phone to then give a call to John and just check in. Hey, John, we send you over that proposal you requested. Did you have any questions? You want to go over it together right now? Okay, and then now you know you're you're you're pinging, and that's the biggest thing is you just stay in front of people, and then from there you can follow up again, and then same thing with your invoices. Yeah, and that's why having that process is good.

Design Your Future Org Now

Duarne 48:12

Like the spreadsheet's great to start, but you also have to make sure is just the tool that you use to help you get your margins right, and make sure you don't miss out on anything you need as a mandatory, especially if you've got products and services that can scale and you get and just work on a number and then put works out all the calculations in between. But you're right, you need a process, and SAP is so important, and it's such an underrated thing in business. The amount of times I sit with business owners, especially like tech companies, and you say, Hey, look, so what's your you're you're bringing on new outsource staff? What's your SAPs you have in place? Oh, I don't have any. How? Well, right, we kind of like just do training sessions with them and they learn how to do it. There was one the other day. He brings on technicians, and for the first six months, they take along with him for six months everywhere six months. He brings them with him for six months every day when he goes to site, what he does, everything they mirror and they shadow. And I'm like, you that's not scalable. He goes, I've got two guys, and it's worked really well for them. And I'm like, okay, but you you you've you'll plateau it like three or four people, and that's just not possible to keep expanding and growing like that. You can't offshore like that, you've got so many limitations, you can't do that and expand into other states and territories. You've got limitations with that sort of technique, you know. Have you thought about just building out SOPs? Uh nah, it's easier for me this way. It's like, okay, cool. I'm not here to change you. I'm just listening, I'm just curious about the technique you've employed to do it. But then I talk to other business owners who go, you know what? I really need to build SOPs. I said, or we build you a tool that you can give to your staff that they can use to build the SOPs for what they do during the day. Then everybody's responsible for doing the SOPs for their own jobs and do it in a standard template format that you know works for everybody, and then have a central knowledge base that holds all that for you. He's like, Oh, that's such a better idea. I like that. It's not such a daunting task at that point. There's so many different ways you can tackle this problem, but you have to start, even if you just pick up a piece of paper and draw a flow chart of what that you know the flow of the system looks like, so you can start thinking about it, documenting each section of that as you go through, you'll start to realize parts of it are not that explanatory or don't work as well as you thought, or a little bit repetitive, and you may improve those processes. And that's another thing that you should definitely be willing to accept is your processes will stay static, they're a dynamic process that are always going to be moving. Very true, James. Very true, especially when you're like one or two people in a business and you lose one person or two people in your business, you just lost a huge part of your knowledge from the business. You know, I've got other clients right now that will employees have been on board for 12 years who refuse to document their processes because they've got an inflated. Yeah, well, with that, I mean I think I think them like as much as they knowledge that they've gained over the world.

Dave 51:58

If that's the case, if that's the case, like you you just kind of have to, I mean, you're the manager, you're the leader. You kind of just have to say, like, this is my expectation of you, like you have to do this, otherwise, you know, we're gonna hold you accountable. Like, you you just have to. And like, as James has kind of said there, there's so many, there's so many ways for you to get it out of your head. One, you could talk to AI, and sorry, Dwarren, it looks like there's a delay in our audio. So there's literally AI, you could just talk to, it'll transfer it. There's Scribe, which is one that I see all the time. I've never used it, but you know, Scribe is another one that I think you just do you the, yeah, you just do your work and then it follows you along, it'll take screenshots and all that kind of stuff. You don't have to do it, it just does it for you, is what I'm understanding. I only say it because I know I'm I'm it's in the back of my mind to actually go and do it now that as as we're growing and expanding as well, but you know you have to get it off because otherwise you're just you're still gonna be the bottleneck, you're still gonna be the person where everything stops at you. And if you don't do that, you don't break that pattern, you're setting yourself up for failure.

One Process Per Week, No Excuses

Duarne 53:06

It's very true. And look, and you're 100% right. There is a scribe's a great one, even the free version of Scribe is actually pretty good. There was a new one that I saw recently. I'm just gonna see if I can track it down and we can post it here if any wants to take a look. But there was there was one I saw recently that I was exploring on App Sumo, a buy once, get it forever sort of deal, lifetime deal where it's actually or hire guys like us. Exactly. Hire people like us, James. We should do some self-promotion. But like it's true, like some people, like I remember years ago, there was a company I worked for, and they actually hired in for like a hundred grand some company to come in, and it was like two or three of them. They sat down with every employee and mapped out the entire they were project managers, mapped the entire process out, and then presented all the SOPs and documents. The one thing they forgot to mention was once they left, it someone had to take over and keep updating those documents, right? Because it just wasn't that those things don't just automatically update themselves, right? So that's the that's the thing. You gotta what whoever it's like the information in a system is only as good as how relevant it is. So if you start noticing that your systems are out of date, you have to have a change log process in place to change the version, to improve it, to make it better.

Dave 54:49

Well, and you gotta be gotta be mindful as well. Because depending on your business, you may have like actual responsibility to be following them to a T. And you know, I think of healthcare, because I have a lot of experience with healthcare agencies, you know, depending on your certification, and you get audited, which sometimes it in order to keep your certification, it's like every three years. If you are not following those processes, you are gonna fail the audit. You may lose your certification, which could put you out of business, which is why it's so important to actually understand what your processes are and are you following the high and are you updated? I had a conversation with somebody recently, and they're like, Oh, yeah, we have we have like three booklets of processes. I'm like, Oh, that's funny. I said, because I knew that like the business and the operation. I said, How many of those are are you actually following? And and the the individual was like, I don't know. And I said, Exactly. I said they need to be updated at least every year. And how we did it when I was in corporate in this world, right? We would each department was responsible for their processes, and they had to kind of report out here's what we're updating, here's our suggestion changes, and then it had to go and it had to get approved by you know the board. You have to do that, and a lot of small business owners don't don't think that way. And you don't necessarily have to be that in depth right right away, but it is important to just get it out of your head, you know, write it down. Be you know, and I say this too, and we've talked about it. Think through like in the future, what is that ideal structure look like? What is the ideal business look like that you're that you're striving for? And put it down on paper, the revenue you're making a month, the number of employees that you have, the structure that you have, you know, how many clients do you have? If you're looking in brick and mortar, like where are you at? Because by doing that, you then can outline, okay, here's all the people that I'm gonna need to hire. Here's all the the processes, the departments that I'm gonna have to develop. And yes, it may be 10 years down the road that you're striving for this, but now everything that you do now, you can start and see why it's important for you to say, okay, here's our process. And things are gonna evolve, that's fine. But you can put down the job descriptions for those people, and here's why you don't want to have to do this when you're busy and growing, because you're already busy and growing, you're never gonna have time. But now, if you're not where you want to be, right, and you're still growing for that and you're expanding, document that stuff now because then it's gonna be there. And the worst case is you just have to maybe just update it a little bit. Whereas if you have to start from scratch when you're already working 40, 50 hours a week to serve your clients and now you're still growing and now you're trying to bring somebody on, when are you gonna find the time to develop it? Then you're not. So it's so important to kind of focus on this stuff now when you're smaller than wait till you're just like, Oh, I'll just wait. I've heard this conversation, I'm sure you've heard it too. I'll just I'll just wait till I get bigger. Okay. Let me know how that goes.

Owner Time: On The Business vs In It

Duarne 57:57

Yeah. And this is the thing, right? I mean, how many those booklets? Like we've all seen companies that have those booklets, they have the processes. Somebody's decided at some point that when new staff come on board that someone trains them and it'll be like, oh, look, you know, don't follow this process, this one's out of date. Oh, where's the new one? I'll just show you how it's done. If you've got if you've got that many processes in your business, you need booklets, then you probably need to revisit how many processes you have in your business anyway. And maybe just focus on just the core SOPs that you need and the core systems to run your business because it sounds like you got a lot more systems than are probably needed. The last thing you want is for your staff to have to learn hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of systems to be able to do a job because that's not going to be effective for anyone either. Exactly. Excuse me.

Dave 59:09

Exactly.

Duarne 59:09

So and yeah, I think it all comes down to the individual.

Dave 59:15

And I I think we we actually talked about it when James is on James is on the show, is just start with one process. You know, just like we we talked about, just get started. Put it in your calendar. Every week, I'm gonna spend an hour out of my week to document, to talk into AI, or to log into Scribe and just do one process. And that's all that's all it takes. And then by the time you get done with it, you're gonna realize in a couple months, you've got them all done. You know, and so first thing would be plan it, go into AI and say, here's all here's my plan of all the processes and everything that I need to get out of my head and document into a wiki or you know, a document library for growth. And then every week have it, you know, say, okay, here's the one we're gonna focus on today. Let's get started. You know, and like you said, a gem. So put that then into a like a Google Sheet. The gem can be attached to the Google Sheet. Tell me which one we're working on this week, and then you work on it. And it you can even have your reminder sent, you know, or have, you know, if you're on ClickUp and which is what I use, I use ClickUp and I have my personal assistant. It can set and find times for me, you know, find me an hour in my schedule this week to do it. So yeah, it's James, you're right, exactly. As James says, you know how to eat an elephant, you just eat it one bite at a time, just like you eat your steak or your chicken or whatever. Like everything starts with one bite, your pants, right? One leg at a time. Like nobody's different. Like nobody has more, and we talked about this before, nobody has more time than you, nobody is, you know, a special circumstance. We all have our own scenarios. Like essentially, it's just an excuse. It's really just an excuse. If you're just like, oh, I just don't have time to do it. It's an excuse. I'm sorry, like you know, I I know it just laugh in the face for some people to hear it, but you know what? You have to hear it. And and the when I first got like full-time and uh and a coach, you know, essentially got into coaching, and and I hate the word coaching nowadays, but I used to be in the like, well, I've just got to be really gentle and just like be really, you know, kind of empathetic and so oh okay, you didn't get that done. Well, let's just do it, we'll do it now. Well, fuck that. Like, and I and I've made this shift, like, dude, no. You need to do like, do you want to be successful or not? Because ultimately, if you're if you're gonna be passive and you're just gonna keep giving excuses, then we shouldn't be working together because you're not making you're not making strides. And ultimately, since making that shift, it took me about probably nine months to figure this out, nine to twelve months to figure this out. But people are way more successful now because they need that. That's why, that's why they're in this situation. So if that's you, and I call it the mirror moment, go look in the mirror. You can lie to Duarne, you can lie to your spouse, you can lie to your employees about all the effort you're putting in, about all the lack of time you have, right? But you can't lie to yourself when you look in yourself in the mirror at the end of the day. You know, if you look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day and you try to tell yourself, yeah, I uh I did everything I could. Really? If you could lie to yourself, you might be a psychopath, but you can't. You know exactly what you do.

Duarne 1:02:31

Well, it's true, right? I mean, it's it's like if you want to live, if you want to coach like you're in a little, you know, a coach who treats you like you're in little league, that's a different, that's just someone, you know, coaching a team to have some fun. You get to college grade, high school grade, professional grades, you don't get coached the same way. They're not right, they're not as pleasant because they're telling it how it is, because you have to put in the effort. There's an expectation that you turn up and you put the effort in. It's not about just turning up and getting a participation award. If business was about turning up and getting a participation award, everybody would guess what? Everyone would have a everyone would be doing great. It's not the ones who are successful are doing more behind the scenes than you'll ever know, or they've hired people to do a lot more work behind the scenes for them, and they've got places to make it work. Yep. Exactly. They built the processes. I mean, and if you want to understand businesses that have spent invested in processes, look at any software company and look at their knowledge base for their help desk systems. Those were not built to for any other purpose other than making their life easier. These are the most commonly asked questions to reduce the amount of friction of using their product. They go and make a knowledge base so you can help yourself. These self-help tools are just them documenting their processes on how to do things with their tools. And why do they do it? Because it means that more people can do it themselves and take less stress off their staffing resources that they have to provide. These new AI support chatbots are designed in exactly the same way. They're designed to give you the answers as a user quickly and not rely on talking to a human that actually costs money, a significantly larger amount of money than an AI system is currently costing. So these are just systems that have been put in place. A lot of the times when you look at these businesses, you don't even realize how much time and investment's been put into these systems or what this, you know, where they started with their systems. But what's typical is you get founders who and business owners who just get so stressed out because they haven't systemized anything, or they've tried to systemize and it didn't work because they haven't found the best technique to systemize that works for them. Not the one sit there's not one size fits all system. You have to find the one that works for you, and it could be you just start telling someone else that works for you what to do and get and you know, have them document it. Maybe that's your system, maybe that's how it works, right? You know, if you're not capable or you don't have the time or you don't have the interest, find someone else in your team who does have that capability. We talked about rocks and rock stars last week in our teams. Go and find yourself the person who fits personality fits that role better and assign it to them. Someone who's gonna, you know, really appreciate that level of system implementation. Because you'll probably find that as you continue to grow your business, a lot of people are gonna really thrive with systems because it gives them the tools and the routines they need and the guardrails and the guidelines to deliver and you know get the praise for doing a job well done. If everyone's having to sit there and reinvent the wheel every time, then that's that's a lot of that's a lot of brain power you're having to put in every for everything you do.

Key Takeaways & Closing CTA

Dave 1:06:28

Well, that's why it's really important. We can talk about we'll talk about this next time. So we it's in terms of right, you're really analyzing what you're doing and what the team's doing, and we can we'll get into that next week and I'll make a note of that. But for this week, I mean, so we covered pricing, right? We covered kind of systematizing your process, everything in terms of that aspect. And I think we covered a lot. We're at our hour mark roughly. So for me, one, if you have questions on any of this, drop them down below. You can send it to you know, either one or you know, I or Dwarne's DM, however you're watching this, wherever you're watching this. But you know, down below, there's also a link. You can schedule a call, you can do any of this to kind of have a conversation to learn about your specific situation. And we'll answer those questions live, or we'll get an answer back to you in one way, shape, or form. But with that, Dwarne, what do you hope they take away from today's episode? What is something that high level that you hope they get a chance to kind of walk through and and and kind of maybe take away and implement in their business today?

Duarne 1:07:27

I think pick one thing in your business that would work better with a system and then try and build the system, even if it's just drawing the system out on a piece of paper or explaining it to ChatGPT or any other platform, AI platform, and ask it to help you build an SOP around it. Start with one and then give it to somebody else in your business and ask them to try following it and see if they get stuck. If they get stuck, it means there's a problem with your SOP. So then identify that problem and go back and fix it. But try don't try and make 10, 15, 20 systems. Start with one. Once you get that right, you'll start to reap the rewards from it. You'll see the value and you'll want to make more. It'll because it just makes sense.

Dave 1:08:25

And and to kind of piggyback on that, is now that you have the processes documented, now you analyze well, how much time was I spending on this every week, every two weeks, every month as the owner? Because in the end of the day, that's where you have the opportunity to then work on your business and not in your business. Right. And so if you're doing admin hours and you're and you're spending 10, 15, 20 hours a month as an owner doing this work that is not adding value to your business, then you have to find a way to get it off your plate. That's how you grow. That's the biggest thing that you can do. And so really understanding your time that you're spending in the business doing a lot of this admin work, you know, the work that shouldn't be done by you. Look at a CEO. No CEO is doing admin work, no owners doing admin work. You don't see Jeff Bezos out there doing, you know, bookkeeping or editing code on a website, right? He does his job, which is actually growing the business, building relationships, bringing in new clients, bringing new customers, bringing in new products, bringing new service lines. That's what you should be looking at as the owner, not how do I make sure that my invoicing is caught up, which it feels like you might need to to get started, not saying off the ground you shouldn't, but ultimately you have to then figure out all right, how do I get this off my plate? I'm at a point now where I need to get this off my plate. I need to invest in my business to grow my business. And so that's what I think you really need to take away from today is really is give yourself an analysis. And we'll talk a little bit deeper about you know, processes and all of that in the future, but really understand how much time are you working in the business that doesn't require you to, because it's not adding value to the business. And then how do I switch that and start working on the business to actually grow it? And so with that, I hope you guys take something away from today. Remember, we're on a mission to impact a thousand business owners by the end of 2028. And we appreciate you being here. If you got a tidbit, maybe one, two, ten, I don't know. Share this, like this video. Make sure you're doing all that fun algorithm stuff. Give it a like, make sure you're subscribed to the channel so you get notified every time we go live. We go live, as we said, every Friday morning, 8 15 in the morning. We look forward to sharing our thoughts, our impacts, our ideas with you all. We're glad you're here. We love you. Hope you have a wonderful and amazing day. Duarn, thanks for joining me again, and we'll see everybody. Thanks. We'll see everybody in the next one. Bye bye. Take care, everyone.