Welcome And No Fluff Promise

Dave 0:02

Welcome to Business Ascrypted Podcast. We're here to share real life insights, practical strategies, and the honest lessons that we have learned from our home state, the things that we have been in your shoes. So whether you need help with operations, accountability, financial knowledge, sales, maybe just getting your mindset right. We are here and it is the right spot for no fluff conversations and tools to help work. So grab your favorite cup of Joe. Let's jump into the show. As I said myself, grab your favorite cup of Joe and let's jump into another episode of the Business Unscripted Podcast, which means it's another Friday morning, and you're here with uh your favorite two business entrepreneurs and podcasters, voices, however you want to say it. But Dwarne, welcome. And if you're here, welcome to you too. So Duarne, how uh how's your week going, man? It went a lot quicker than I expected.

unknown 0:54

Sorry.

Duarne 0:55

I kind of looked up to that. And I was like, oh wow, where did that go?

Dave 1:04

I I'm kind of

Loving The Work Again

Dave 1:05

the same way now, you know, where it's like I look forward to the days of the week, and I really don't know which day of the week it is when kind of working, except for like by looking at the calendar. But I'm like, it's like, man, I there's just so much stuff I want to get done. There's just so much stuff I want to be working on. It's exciting, and you know, that's how you, if you're listening to this, and and Duarn and I, you know, it's how you know you're in the right spot, how you know you're doing something that you love. When you don't dread coming in to work, you don't dread staying longer hours. You know, I've been thinking it a while now. I would have never gotten up every day at 5 40 in the morning to leave the house by 6 30 to be at work at 7 and then be at work until like 6 37 every day. I I would I would have hated it. You know what I mean? Even when I was doing what I thought I loved being, you know, a CFO director of finance in in the corporate world, I would have never done that, you know, unless it was like needed because I had to get a financial report out or it was year end or we were doing a budget or something like that.

Duarne 2:07

But but now morning meeting, that sort of thing.

Dave 2:10

Yeah, like like now it's just like it's easy, it's like easy, and it doesn't feel like it's work, you know, which is why it's awesome.

Duarne 2:21

It's a transition, right? And it's crazy, right? Like I this week I've been at my desk up until late almost every night, right? But it's been doing stuff that I actually enjoy. So for me, like last night, I was up until 10 40 p.m. or something like that at my desk, and I was doing a bit of vibe coding, got carried away with a project and got a little too excited. And the only reason I stopped was because I got a quota exceeded warning saying that I couldn't continue and I couldn't figure out how to you know push past it. So I figured, well, the the system guides are telling me to take a break. So I've gone inside, I've looked at the watch, and I'm like, oh, I didn't realize it was that late. Right, right. And I got a very supportive wife who's like, what were you doing? Uh building something. Oh, cool. Okay, and we

Vibe Coding Explained For Beginners

Duarne 3:20

left it at that.

Dave 3:22

And it's you know a lot of people are like, What what do you mean by vibe coding? You know what I mean? And it's something, and I said this too, because I'm I we share an office space here and with like a little business initiative that is in our area. And a lot of the guys, I told them the other day, I said, you know, if you would have asked me six months ago, if I would have been sitting here at my computer with two, you know, code IDEs up and running, you know, and going back and forth with another, you know, kind of code, chatbot, building skills and doing all these things for for clients, I would have told you we're crazy. I'd have been like, what are you talking about? What's vibe coding? Like, I don't, I don't even know, you know, what computer code is. Like, no way I'm gonna be doing that. And here I am, you know, because there's been such an advancement in the ability for the average person to to do things and make things uh awesome, you know, and that's where it comes down to is uh you can see it and all you gotta do is just describe it, but there's still a world of so many people out there that just don't even want to get started, and that's great, like good for them because that's where you and I, right? Or if you're listening to this and you're like, I love it just as much as you guys do. This is your opportunity because you can help those people bring their ideas to life, and that's what this is all about. You know, you don't need a $500 an hour coder or you know, engineer to make a basic landing page anymore.

Duarne 5:04

No, and look, there's definitely, I mean, there's huge advantages of actually understanding how databases work, having some basic understanding of coding, having some understanding on how systems and functions and work and communicate together. But once you get that understanding and the basics together, you can really build out. And one of the things that, like, I was watching a lot of videos during the week on five coding and different techniques that people are doing. The one thing that I see is there's so many different platforms that can do it now, and there's so many different ways to do it. Everyone's got an opinion on what works best for them, and it doesn't really matter what you use, there's a lot of different simple ways to do it, whether it's clawed code, whether it's AI Studio with Google Gemini, whether you're using Codec with OpenAI, and there's a you know a whole bunch of others out there as well. But there's different techniques and ways to do it. And I was watching how actual long life develop app developers actually build versus how these new vibe coders who've never coded before do it. And the one thing that stood out was the person who can explain the best and communicate the best and the clearest what they want to achieve, how they want it to work, the guardrails, the limitations, they are gonna get the best results most of the time. And making it look pretty and do things that you know and that's if and that's if you're so you mentioned you know there's a lot of different programs out there, right?

Dave 6:43

There's

Picking AI Tools And Token Limits

Dave 6:44

codex, there's claude, there's you know, Gemini code, all and there's more that we're not even talking about, but you also have to understand that they each have a power, right? Yeah, and what you also need to learn about is token usage and limits, which you mentioned. You you were you hit a limit. So what I actually use multiple, you know, so I still use codex with Claude in in our work that we do here because Claude is wonderful at the planning, the ideation, and the actual sort of design work. And then it's great at then creating you the steps that then you can use Codex, who's great at like the grunt work and uses less tokens to do the grunt work than Claude would do. And so getting out there and saying, okay, I'm gonna plan with Claude, and then I'm gonna say, Okay, give me the steps and prompts that I need to create to give to Codex because it's gonna do the work, and then I'm gonna send it back to Claude to review. Claude's your manager, Claude's your kind of oversight, you know, and codex is your you know, frontline staff, your interns, right, that are gonna do a lot of the work for less cost. And so then what you can do in these is you go out, you have codex, you get multiple terminals running at the same time in codex with the different sort of prompts and have it working and being more efficient. And then you say, Okay, go back to Claude and say, Okay, steps one through six are done. Can you confirm them? And then if there's a deeper in-depth step that Claude should be doing, Claude will do it. And so you you should be getting used to not picking just one and going with it because they all have a benefit. You know, I still use Gemini still with Claude, even though I do a lot of Claude now because of everything that you can do with Claude, but you still have Gemini's great for the image generation. So on some of our things, on some of our automation, we connect back to our Gemini to do the image generation. So because it's the best out there right now, you know. So really understanding what are the power pieces for each, what's the what's the the strength of each of the platforms, and then harnessing how you can you know use them. You know, codecs, you can use at a $20 a month plan, and I've never hit a limit yet on codecs with Chat GPT. Now in Claude, I've hit the limit when I'm paying $200 a month for Claude, right? At the highest level, because there's still gonna be limits on the the model that you're using, no matter what, because if it's tons of people out there, if there's hundreds of thousands, millions of people trying to run that version, it's gonna put limits on it, whether no matter what you're paying. So it really comes down to figuring out what works for you and your setup, and then just playing around and just going back and forth and getting used to you're gonna get better again. Six months ago, I would I didn't know code at all. I didn't know what a a bash command was or what a terminal was, and now I'm using them every day multiple times a day, you know, and so it just is getting started.

Duarne 10:24

It is, and it's it's interesting because like I've I've been using AI Studios from Google to be building what I'm

Building A Payroll App In Chunks

Duarne 10:31

building at the moment, which is a payroll system. And one of the things that I'm doing with that is I'm using Chat GPT to help me create the instructions, and one of the things I noticed very early was if your instructions are too complex, it takes forever and then fails.

Dave 10:50

So Google AI Studio.

Duarne 10:51

In Google AI Studio, yeah. So to overcome that, I just went back to ChatGBT and said, hey, look, this is failing. Let's break this into bite-sized chunks that I can put in at smaller requests, and it doesn't time out, it doesn't fail, it gets the work done, it gets the work, goes through and does it. And that was really quite interesting. And then instead of going in and using as tempting as it is, say, hey, I want to fix this, this isn't right. I go back over, I do a screenshot, and I go back over and I drop it in Chat GPD and I say, This isn't working the way I expected. I need to make this work like this. Can you give me the instructions to make this clear and make sure you include all the dependencies?

unknown 11:32

Right.

Duarne 11:32

And it builds out an instruction set, and then it goes and I can copy, paste, and drop it in, and I'm getting really clean, consistent results the all the way through.

Dave 11:42

And and again, this is me, my my six month expertise right here. But like

Moving From Web To IDE

Dave 11:49

that's that's the like you're at you're at level one of like vibe coding because the next step is actually then downloading to your device, right, the actual code editor. Because then you're and then you can have your Claude, your your codecs all in one spot, and then it's automatically looking at the code, right? You're trying to piece and saying, Oh, all your codes over here in Google AI. I want codecs to try to figure out what Google AI is doing without actually seeing it, and then trying to give it instructions. And this is where I started in coding, yeah, was I was trying to use codecs in the web, it never really had access to the full you know repository and seeing all of it. And so your next step would be and if you're starting and you're trying to figure this out, you would design in Google AI Studio. Like get the general basic, you can then export the code and then put it into a code editor. So don't try to make Google AI when you're doing when you're looking at the Google AI Studio with an app, my suggestion, unless it's a really simple thing, you're building something that's more in depth, a lot of layers with a payroll kind of piece, right? An HRS system for for your staff. Don't try to get it perfect, especially at your level where you have all these different sort of intricacies and different components to your app, would be get the general initial flow right, then export it, and then you would go into a code software. And one, I would say definitely download Claude, have it analyze what you're trying to do. It will then put together a step-by-step plan of how to build everything out for you, and then it's reading everything, and then it can give those prompts directly to Codex to do a lot of the work, and then you can kind of come back and build it and finish it up that way. And then that's where you start to get to level like two, three, four, five of really vibe coding and getting it going. And that's a lot of problems that I had early on, and I'm sure you're feeling it, right? It's because you're telling Codex what you want it to do, it doesn't know what's actually coded and what's there, it's just assuming what's there based on what you're it's seeing in the screenshot. So when you go back to Google AI Studio, some of the instructions may be right, some of it may not, and then it may not fix it, and then you're trying to go back and forth, and now you're wasting all your time. So that's my suggestion. Yeah, but again, I'm again, I'm a six-month coder, you know, that's that's got experience.

Duarne 14:07

But well, yeah, and you're and you're not wrong though. I mean, and when I was watching the videos, there's a lot of and there's a lot of them out there using, you know, whether it's Visual Studio, Cursor, any of these other visual aids to demonstrate and demonstrate run your code and show what it actually looks like in real life, which is really cool. I mean, the fact you can build all this stuff and you can do all this stuff now is incredible. And the fact that we can build it, like, and you can do simple things like one of the ones I was watching, they in like 20-30 minutes, they built a alternative version of granola, you know, the meaning noting note taker used with vibe coding, and they were using Claude, all right? So using Opus, and that was great. They were able to get it out, it and they tried to there was this challenge they were doing it. An experienced developer and a vibe experienced vibe coder was using their own tools to do it, and they had five prompts to make it work, and they they made it a challenge, and I was quite surprised with what they were able to get working on an emulated iOS device in that time frame.

Dave 15:25

I've seen a couple of things, I think it's like it's a vibe coder versus an experience, and they kind of go head to head on different apps, right? And they try to develop the different apps, right?

Duarne 15:33

And they try and then hearing them talk about it is kind of cool because you start to see how a developer who's been doing this for a long time and developing from scratch works with these tools, and you get to see how a vibe coder who doesn't really understand the fundamentals of you know coding necessarily and goes, Well, you know, I wanted to do this, and this is how it's gonna work. And they explain it, and you'll see that a lot more detail goes into the instructions from a vibe coder rather than of an actual developer.

Dave 16:04

And here's where here's where we say that we we've said this, honest. This is like you surrounding somebody, you're you're surrounding yourself with somebody that has a lot more experience than you. Think about it. We've talked about it with Henry Ford. You know, Henry Ford didn't know much about cars, but yet his name's on millions of cars every year because he surrounded himself with people. This is you now in your business, in your life, surrounding yourself with the brain power of a hundred thousand coders to help you do what you need to do and bring it to life. So as a CEO of a company, you have to be able to be that visionary. You have to explain what is in your head to your team of coders, which is your AI, your vibe coding, etc., to be able to then get out what you want it as an output. And so this is the truly now, you don't have to pay salaries, taxes for all these hundred thousand people or however many vibe coders you want to have on your team, you have it at your fingertips. You know, it's basically what do you want to invest in a monthly, you know, kind of use of the software and your and your limits. And that's where you're going to be limited by is what time do you have to actually give it? And this is where I also, and again, if you have it on your computer, you can actually like do local dev environments where you don't have to post it up to the to the web yet. You can actually see what it's going to look like on your local computer before you have to go into like a GoHi level or your website platform and upload the different code and then test it. And then it's right there. And all you do is like click a button. It's cloud's so smart, it literally gives it to you and says, Here, just click here and it's gonna pop up. It also, if there's visual components that it wants to code, it'll say, Do you want me to show you this before we move forward instead of it just being text? And you can say yes, and then it'll show you the visual components. Okay, which one do you like? A, B, or C. So it's like literally having a teammate right next to you, and then you can give the feedback. I don't like any of those. I want to you to change A, B, and C. Then here's why, right? And then it'll go through it, it'll change it, it'll give you the next steps. And so you really have no reason to not want to do this other than you're just not interested in it. And I get it, you have your strengths. Some people are like, like you and I, Dwarf, right? We love this. We love how we can design things for people and make their life easier. People have their strengths, you know, and this is where you're using your experience in marketing, design, and development that you've already had prior to this, and now you're bringing it in to your design work. I have the financial, the operation side, then I'm now able to develop something for people that is going to impact their life because they want to make their life easier by just doing what they love. And so a lot of people don't love it like we do, and that's cool. Like, I get it. That's why we're here because we can help do things for them that they don't want to do, but it still makes their life easier. And that's ultimately what this whole rotation of support kind of gets down to.

Duarne 19:33

Absolutely. And like I had one of my staff sitting next to me today, whilst we were going through what we'd already built, saying, Oh, it'd be great if we could do this. It's like, oh, that's a good idea. Let's flesh out the concept, flesh out a concept,

Proof Of Concept To Real Product

Duarne 19:48

load it in the instructions and built out the functionality right there. Right. And I was like, okay, what about you know what else are you thinking? Oh, this would be good. Yeah, that is a good idea. Let's implement that. So you can take feedback from teams and put it into this. This is not something you have to do solo necessarily. And the one thing I found really interesting is a lot of the stuff when I started out with this particular project, I normally scope projects out pretty thoroughly. I realized that there was a lot of stuff in here as I was going, oh yeah, this would actually be really good to add in as a dependent because we couldn't do that in the last system. And I used to hear lots of complaints coming through from the team. Let's build that so I could fully customize it. And then at some point along the lines, I'm like, well, this is not going to be just an internal tool anymore. This is becoming an actual proper HR tool that I can put out to anybody. This is something I can put out and provide it to other people. So now I've got a product design in my head where I'm building out a product to go out. Now, is it going to be the final product once I finish the vibe coding? No. I'm going to have my development team go through and actually clean it all up and finalize it and fix any issues that they see and version history the lot and create all the cartoon guides, then I'll beta test it and then I'll get it out there. But I mean, like some of the things that I've got to do.

Dave 21:15

That's the piece that's important. Is you can't just vibe code it and then put it out because there are a lot of things that you want to make sure are correct. And then that's where you then begin to invest into an experienced person to be able to kind of wrap it up, right? And then have that sort of maintenance with you ongoing. But you can get through ideation, you can get through the the basic V1 beta testing almost on yourself. And as long as, like in your scenario, you're gonna have sensitive information from people. Yeah if you're not carrying sensitive information, and as long as you make sure that you're connected to the right, right database, Googles, things like that, and you're not using some and and you have the security in place, and you can ask the code, hey, how secure is this? Uh, you can even go and say, All right, now that we're kind of ready to go for beta testing, I want you to do a security analysis on everything that we have going on on the on the site and where are our areas that we need to improve. And then it's gonna give you the step-by-step plan of okay, well, we need to improve A, B, and C because these are the issues, and then it's gonna analyze it, okay, this is fatal, right? This is high, this is low risk, you know, and then you can decide what you want to actually pay attention to. And this is the beauty of that. And then you can go once you're ready to go live, and if you're gonna have sensitive information in there, you can grab it, have somebody review it, you know, save yourself all that time and you've already vetted the idea. You don't want to pay somebody to develop something that you haven't even vetted the idea if there's gonna be interest or need, you know.

Duarne 22:47

The idea would be concept. I mean, it's proof of concept, right? It's prototyping. And this is one of the things which I think is really interesting. And we talked about this previously. I mean, if you're a songwriter and you're using an AI song generator, you can put your song in a song generator with the style of singer that you and music you are thinking would work with it. And then hear it played back and see if it sounds the way you thought it did. You know, it's a prototyping your lyrics in use rather than you have to sit there and try and sing. And if you're a terrible singer, you might not be able to. Development is the same way. You can build proof of concept. Once it's built as a proof of concept, you can then go out and test it, show it, demonstrate it, get investment to go out and hire a team and build it out properly, you know, into a commercial use case. Or you could build out a proof of concept, present it to a client and say, hey, look, this is going to solve that problem you were telling me about. If you'd like, I can get this fully built out for you. It's going to cost XYZ. This is a demo to show you what it could look like and how it's going to function. Right. What do you think? Is this something that's you're interested in?

Dave 23:54

I just did I well, I just did that exact same scenario. It was it's it's a client of mine that or it soon to be, where they have a manual process right now that's causing a lot of delays. And so I developed a proof of concept on Google AI Studio of here's how it would look. And Google AI Studio is able to like give you, like, you know, kind of here's view A, view B, view Z, C, and we were able to then ship it right to them from Google AI Studio and say, here's the demo. Like, is it if this works, we'll build the entire back end, we'll do all of that for you, and then it's gonna help you with your process, and we're gonna take all that off your plate. And that's ultimately the goal, too, is how you know internally do we build it to be able to take that manual work off their plate, but then make it easier on our end as well for our team to then go out and do the work that they need to to provide the outcome. And so this is also that challenge that you're gonna have probably with people as well, where they're gonna be like, oh, so you made your job easier, why are you charging me so much? Right. Or, and this is where you have to believe in outcome value versus our

Pricing Based On Outcome Value

Dave 24:58

price per hour of the work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_04 25:00

Yeah.

Dave 25:01

A lot of this the stuff that me and Duan were talking about this pre-show, when you develop something like this, you don't necessarily know what the back end costs are gonna be because you're gonna have API costs, you're gonna have storage costs as your use of that platform, right? And so the database, all of that. And so you have to believe still, you don't want to drop down to a price where eventually you're gonna be losing money. It's an outcome. How much time are you giving back to them in in terms of the person that you're working with? That's you how you're pricing it. You're not pricing it about how easy it is on the back end for you, you're pricing it because you're giving them back 10 hours a week. And what's that 10 hours a week worth for them? And as long as they're that value is three, four, five X what you're charging them, that's all that matters. And you have to believe in your price.

Duarne 25:47

And if say this is people so many times. It's a value proposition. I mean, like for us, I'm building, I started out building a payroll system because I thought, you know what? My team's been complaining about who do the payroll, it takes too long. We had a payroll system previously, it was reasonable, it wasn't great, and they just they did a midnight disappearing act, and that was it. And we've been looking for a replacement, and we haven't found one that fit the suitability and the price point we wanted. So I thought, you know what, let's just build a spreadsheet. So as I started to build out a spreadsheet, I realized, and of course, I was getting some help with AI with that. I'm like, this is gonna be too complex to explain to my team how to use a spreadsheet. There's too many moving parts here. And when this is done, I'd have to build an automation as a gem in Google to grab this and convert it to this and then do this, or have these agents in place to go in and grab this information and convert it to this. I'm like, what if I just turn it into an app? And then as I started to work on the concept, it made a lot more sense to be an app. And then when I started working on it, I realized, well, a payroll, it can be a payroll system, but I should have shifts, leave, leave requests, attendance records, I need to have disbursement information, I need to make sure that I've factored in all these different categories, all these different reports. So suddenly this thing who was meant to be a simple spreadsheet or a not so simple spreadsheet has become a fairly complex application. And as I go through and I bring more of the team into it who are using this system or will be using their system, they've got feedback on the functions they would like. And this is something you can't do really well with a developer because a developer will typically scope something, they'll create the milestones, they'll scope it, and then they'll follow the milestones. And if you do something out of scope, there's an additional cost for that, or it has to be re-scoped and then additional cost for that, and then a longer time frame. So the just the ability to be able to prototype this is absolutely incredible. It's one of those scenarios where if we were able to do this 10 years ago, I'm sure people, you know, a lot of developers would have been so much happier. Now we can do it and it's so much easier for anyone to do it. A lot of developers are concerned what this means for their jobs. We've seen this in Australia where large companies which were hiring very large amounts of developers and engineers are now reducing down to a third of those developers and engineers.

Dave 28:38

And you can help them. Here's the deal: this happens all the time in business. And it's just like Blockbuster, okay, in the US, you see a shift changing, how are you gonna approach it? If you're if you're stuck in your ways and you're like, I'm not changing, we're just gonna keep coding, you know, we're gonna keep trying to manage, you know, big code systems and develop from the beginning, you're gonna fail. You're gonna be just like Blockbuster, you're going to literally end up going out of business. Now, if you can see the future and you can begin to shift yourself into, hey, we understand you guys are all vibe coding. Ours, our expertise is going to be when you get done and you're ready to go live, we're gonna develop a practice to actually analyze your code and your database and then make it more secure for you. If you can shift the way that you're looking at your packaging instead of trying to go from the full development and realize, wait, I don't have to do full code anymore. These guys are gonna come with code, it's gonna give me a base. I can start, I'm gonna start here, right? It just makes sense, you know. And so it it's any time, it's it's a rotation, it's gonna everything is gonna keep going. This is just the other another reiteration of that, you know.

Duarne 29:46

It's just the industrial revolution again. Yeah, you know, we go through these every now and again. You put machines in to solve problems, and then suddenly people don't have a job. Well, you still need people to run the machines, and one thing that we've demonstrated, I hope during this call or this episode is that not everyone's going to be capable of doing vibe coding. It really takes some you to understand what you're trying to put out. Now, as somebody who builds a lot of custom GPTs for a lot of different people, one of the things that I find very stressful is that you're very much stuck in that particular mode. And this is where taking that to the next level and adding age AI agents to that or building it into an application. So it's got a user-friendly interface that anyone can use. There's a lot of value in that. So you might have an idea or a business concept or even just a product idea. And for you to be able to spend a weekend putting something together that looks half decent with some of the functionality that you can then go and pitch the idea to somebody and sign them up and say, look, I'll have a deliverable to you in three months. And then spend that three months building out the deliverable and maybe get a deposit for it. I mean, that's huge. That means you can go out and find yourself a developer to help you finish the project. That means that you can take the time to mess it up and fix it a couple of times. Because I guarantee that's one thing you'll learn with vibe coding. It is not going to always be perfect every single time you start working on it. There is going to be times where you hit a glitch and you go, Oh, that's not what I wanted. Reverse, go back, go back. Because there's things you don't realize. Like one thing that we realize very quickly, or I realize really quickly with my project, is I needed to add additional sections to existing parts of my app. I had to add additional logic. I had to add in different permission structures. I had to, and then I had to add in masquerade features so I could go in as a super admin, masquerade and look at other account holders and see what they're viewing and looking at. Because if I don't have that, I can't help them when they have a technical problem because I don't see what they've got. Right. So there's all these little things you just realize.

Dave 32:08

Here's the other thing with that is as you're developing it, you're you're you're v1, right? You're like in it, you see it. However, the thing you have to pay attention to when you're trying to do something like this is you're always

Shipping V1 Without Perfection

Dave 32:22

gonna feel like I can just do one more thing, I can do one more thing, I can do one more thing. You have to pull yourself away from that. You have to say, Where's my v1? Right? Where am I gonna go to beta with? And understand that all these other things can happen. So, what is absolutely a hundred percent needed versus what isn't nice to have, and then that's what you go with beta with. You decide this is my beta list and this is what I'm gonna do because you can always keep building it out, you can always keep adding another feature. And if you'd never go live with it, you spent all this extra time developing when the basic concept wasn't even something that people were gonna invest in or want to add into their business. And so I learned this where you have to set a date. Like once you're in a good place, go beta, like set a date for beta. You can work on things on the back end on branches so that you don't have to put it to live yet. That's fine. Make a list of all those things you want to add in later, but you have to start somewhere with a good initial service because otherwise you're just gonna keep coding or keep trying to get it perfect. Nobody goes perfect the first time, right? No, Google never went perfect, DoorDash is not perfect, like Amazon didn't go perfect when they first went, like they're always evolving, but they're still out there, and that's the piece that you have to get as a business owner is you have to get out there, you have to stop being perfect and just get something out there that's got the basic concept that works, right? And and from there you can make edits. Two points on that too, Dave.

Duarne 33:52

Don't stress about the visuals. You want to fun, you want to focus on the function and the features first. Yes, you can always fix visuals later. So one of the things I've noted as I start going through is I'm like, oh, I'd like to change this to this, or I'd like to uh you know, change the way this is looking. I'll come back to that. I make a note, I come back to it. That's very, very low on the priority list.

Dave 34:17

And here's the thing you could do if you are using like a Claude in an IDE on your computer. You can say, I want to change this, but it's not vital to me going live to beta, add it to the note file for us to change later, and it will literally keep all of this in a checklist for you to come back to later. You know what I mean? And so this is the beauty of this. You don't have to think about it. You could say, I like that, I don't want to change it yet. Like we'll leave it for now for beta testing, but make a note of it to test before we go live to make changes before we go live.

Duarne 34:46

And the other thing you can do is you can question and say, Look, what do you recommend we work on next to make this more robust or more secure or more user-friendly or a better customer experience? And it's actually pretty clever with some of the suggestions they can make to you for that. But to the point you made before about just getting something to market and then move and improve, the guys who put together Base Camp many, many, many, many, many years ago, actually came up with a book called Getting Started. Now, I might have mentioned this on this podcast before. You can get a copy of that ebook for free if you go looking free, copy getting started. And what you'll find is

Getting Started With Skills And Agents

Duarne 35:33

that ebook talks about getting a product to market in this in that instance is talking about getting a web app to market and the things they take care of. Because everything you thought mattered generally doesn't matter to your customer. Your customers will tell you exactly what matters to them, they'll tell you what the problems are once you start the beta testing or the alpha testing with them. So take the time and get it out there and start a read. I mean, it's not a long read, but it's certainly something you should have a read of if you're looking at doing some vibe coding because it's just going to set you up to really think about how you're going to take that product and go to launch with it. And in some cases, we're not even like in my case, I started out just building an internal tool. So you're probably not thinking about how to take this to market and sell it, right? But you can still get a lot of value out of you know that book getting started by the guys at Basecamp. Very clever guys, and they did, and it's a really good read to help put you on the right track. And if you're not sure, you can always grab a copy of that book, drop it into your chat GPT, and say, I want to use this process, help me build out a plan to build my app.

Dave 36:45

No, you don't need to do it that way. No, that that's that's that's old school. Now it's use claude, build a skill, build a skill around the book, and now it's repeatable, you don't have to worry about it anymore, and it's always going to be in the background no matter what you're doing. So and and I go that like skills are another skill is for everyone who's not sure, Dave. So skills are in Claude specifically, and 2.0 I think came out like just a month or a week and a half ago or something like that. But the idea with a skill is that you train Claude how to do something in a way, and it always is going to be repeatable because then it saves it in its files. And every time you say, let's say, for an example, I have skills for everything, but you know, I have a social media content optimizer, so it would understand for LinkedIn what's the best way to write copy for LinkedIn. So then it's gonna analyze the algorithm of everything that's going on, it'll it'll teach itself, it'll learn. And every time then I get asked, I want to write a post for LinkedIn, it's going to know and it's gonna go to that skill for LinkedIn writing and then give me the post based on how it should write for LinkedIn. Do the same thing for Facebook for alignable. And the beauty of skills as well is that you can test them against itself. You can say, Okay, I want you now retest it, make sure you're you're still optimized, and then it's gonna continue to update itself. You have to, it's not automatic, right? You have to test it, but then you say, Okay, give me an output and then analyze it based on your skill, and then make changes based to you to yourself to get a better output. And so that's the beauty of skills 2.0, and it's only gonna continue to get better, and you don't have to be experienced on it because Claude itself has a skill generator in it, so it already knows if you say, I want to create a skill around this, you just tell it the steps of everything you want it to do, and it's gonna create a skill on it. That's the beauty of it, and so it's better than a customized GPT. Why does my camera keep going off? I'm sorry, guys.

Duarne 38:53

You know, it's better than a than a some of the Elgato cameras actually have overheating problems. I've had that.

Dave 38:59

I think that's what this is, which is crazy. But I'll be I'm gonna fix this and get another camera. But you you talk on that for a minute, I'll be right back for you.

Duarne 39:07

Yeah, Dave, I love that. I think that's what you just suggested is great. Another way you can do it is you can actually set up AI agents and train them specifically in the skill set that you want and really niche it down so that when you're doing a task, just call up that agent to do that work for you. And that's effectively an AI employee that you can bring in to do the work to solve that problem that you want to do. So there's lots of different techniques and ways to do it. And look, it all I mean, if you're sitting there going, this just sounds all too complex and complicated, you don't have to go straight to the top, you can just start right nice and simple at the bottom and just work your way up. Like Dave was saying, I'm a tier one in his opinion, with some of the stuff that I've been playing with over the last few days, and it's just about getting started. Once you get started, you're gonna find it gets better and better. And for me, I've got a development team. I could just hand this off to my development team, but I want to get it to the point where it's in alpha beta mode where I can hand it to them and say, hey, go and improve this, make it better, and let them finish it and let them run with it. I want to build the proof of concept, and then I want to go and tell them what I want fixed on that and let them go and fix it. So you could build up these great little tools, products, skills, AI agents, all of these different functionalities to do what you need to do. And we previously we've said stick with one if you're feeling a little overwhelmed, one platform, and just start there. Once you feel like you've mastered that, then try another one. And just be just be careful going down the path of lots of YouTube watching video tutorials. I found myself looking at a few people, and then I just found the ones I liked and how they worked and how they presented the information, and I just stuck with their content and just watched theirs. I didn't go down the path of watching 20 different creators on how they all did it and then compare how they did it. I just picked two and then just stuck with that and then really narrowed in on how I wanted to do it based on what they were teaching, and that was really useful for me. But find what works for you.

Dave 41:19

And one, I think too, you you literally have to like like you said, find what works for you, pick a piece here and a piece there. It's never you're never gonna follow somebody exactly because they're if they're doing content, their whole focus is content, unless they're running some other business. But the most of the people that are putting a lot a lot of these videos right now, they aren't focused on actual business applications. And you'll notice they don't go in depth into what they're doing, they give you a high-level, you know, very like, okay, here's a couple things in this folder, here's what you can do with it. You know, they're not going in depth in your specific examples, etc., if you're if you're watching their videos. So what you have to do is just learn the concept and then think of how can I imply this? Or the other way, the best way, grab the transcript and then go talk to your AI and say, here's a concept I like. How and could I apply this to what we're doing? And again, if you're using Claude, it learns everything that you're doing, it knows what you're doing, especially if you're doing code, it knows it even in the chats. How with what we're doing, trying to build X, Y, and Z, how does this apply to me? And and what's the way that I can adapt this to work for me? And that's the beauty of it. Now you have a brainstorming session, a brainstorming partner that can help you kind of bring up what that plan looks like, and so that you don't always have to think about it on your own. And so many people, man, I hear this all the time. It's like nobody's thinking anymore. Really? I'm thinking at a hot more higher level now than I was before. You know, I think it was we the clip just came out because when we we had Mark on, you know, he basically he said it great. He's like, if you have an associate's degree, it's giving you a bachelor's, if you have a bachelor's, it's giving you a master's, if you have a master's, it's giving you a PhD. Because you when you can think at that level, and then you have all these this team around you to then help you think at a higher level, it's just gonna help expand your growth. And so the ones that are saying that are to me are the ones that are literally like they're they're the ones that probably haven't even started with AI, they don't even get it, they just think that it's a cheat code or something like that.

Duarne 43:24

You know, we're talking, and you're also talking a lot there's a lot of confusion, I think, in the out there at the moment is reliance on technology,

AI In Schools And Learning Styles

Duarne 43:33

doom scrolling, all of these sort of crazy things, and also relying on these technologies too young. So, in you know, if we're if you're talking about adolescence, sure, maybe it shouldn't be something that should be introduced to adolescence too early. But if you're talking about people who are already established in their career, have already established a basic skill set in something, it's giving them the capability to take that to the next level. It's giving them the ability to think and partner and brainstorm. If you imagine how many times you've gotten into a conversation with somebody, thought, that was incredible. I feel so energized after that conversation. I'm so motivated. I want to go and build something, I want to go and do something. That's how you can feel when you start working with the right AI partner and you start building it out and start creating tools and prompts and even just custom GPTs.

Dave 44:26

Well, here I'm gonna I'm gonna be I'm gonna be I'm on a completely opposite end of the adolescent piece. And here's why, right? This is their future. Okay, they are going to know AI one way or another and how they need to use it. So many people are like, I want I don't want AI in the school, I don't want them to like help research. Why? Let them learn and research more about the you know, the national forests in the United States because AI is going to give them everything they need to know, than them going out and finding the top three websites and writing a report on it. AI is their future. This is the same way that when computers first came out, people probably people were probably fighting when we were in school to have not have computers. Computers in and now they're there every day. They have individual computers that they walk the classroom. This is their future. Stop fighting it. So just let them be able to use it. Teach them how to use it right and how to actually think through the way to partner with AI instead of making it this forbidden thing and then and turning it down because I guarantee you come back, clip this, whatever you want to do. Okay. In in minimum of three years, okay, maybe five, AI is going to be in schools. You are going to see AI in schools. It's going to be helping to teach, it's going to be helping them to get a more in-depth understanding of what they're teaching and what they should be teaching.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

As well as I'm also a proponent for homeschooling because you can do so much more. Okay. Like, yeah.

Duarne 46:39

Imagine every agent with skill sets who are perfect English teachers who uh also, if you've got a child with learning difficulties, for example, is also skilled in how to teach that child in a way that works for them. So a customized teaching technique. I totally agree. A long time ago, about two years ago when AI first came out, I made a statement that people who have ADHD, massive, massive, incredible tool for them to use is AI because it gets out messy, unfocused thoughts into clear, actionable thoughts. And it helps them take messy details and get some clarity in what they're going on. One thing I love about AI is you can give it a little bit of chaos, not a lot of chaos, because it will struggle a little bit more with that, but a little bit of chaos and it can help you get some clarity. And you can have a communication dialogue with it where you'll actually get to get clearer and clearer and clearer and closer to where you want. And you're right. When I was in school, we'd go to the bloody library, we'd have to go and get books out. Some of these books were 10 years old, 20 years old. We were using Cyclopedia and Carter on a CD back in '95, '96, '97, '98. Every year you'd have to get a new one. I knew it. We were using world books, we're using Britannica, which were 10 years old. Picked them up from the op shop, you know, you know, 10 years old for 50 bucks for a full set.

Dave 48:11

It's just so backwards. And I I am I am the biggest component of people should be using AI. And the people that fight it are the ones that have no idea they've never touched it, right? I I with it's funny because I try to talk to somebody my kids all the time about it. I'm like, hey, have you have you learned about like notebook at on for teaching? Have have you guys have they taught you like how to do this to improve your learning? You know, and it's like, no, we're not allowed to use AI. And then even my, you know, their mom, right? I I try to like you should help them. Like, this is gonna be great for them. I they should be using AI. They they shouldn't. I'm like, you guys have no idea what it is because you never touched it. And you know what this is?

Duarne 48:53

This is when the first time the calculators were introduced into a classroom.

Dave 48:58

Exactly.

Duarne 48:58

You can we talk we talked we hit it earlier, right?

Dave 49:01

The evolution, right? The evolution of everything happening. This is the evolution again of the classroom in in school. If if your school is highly against it, there guarantee in three years it'll be in their classroom. But you then have as a leader, if you're if you're into AI, you have to then be the one to be teaching your kids how to use it effectively. Not I want you to go out here and I want you to just write my book report. That's not how you use it, right? Use it in learning mode, have it teach you, have it understand, have it walk you through, right? A, b, and c, and it's gonna quiz you. You know, I taught my son that. I said, here, you have math questions, ask it the math question, but go in learning mode, right? Don't just say what's the answer, go in learning mode. It's gonna walk you through step by step what the actual reasoning is, and it's gonna then quiz you do you understand it? Here's a test, you know, and then and it's gonna give you a quiz. Do you understand the concept? And then, okay, let's move on, you know, and so I I wholeheartedly believe in you. You know, what you mentioned just a couple minutes ago. You are gonna be able, I'm sure this is already in development somewhere around the world, right? By somebody, if not, somebody's may listen to this and do it, but they're going to create a service that learns about your kid, okay, understands their learning, their style, okay, continues to learn and improve as it engages with your child to teach them everything that they need to know in school. And I guarantee it's going to be better than any, okay, maybe not guarantee any teacher, but it's gonna be better than about 90% of teachers on the on planet right now, just because it has all those capabilities and it's gonna be specific to each client, it's not one teacher for 20 kids, it's gonna be one teacher for one kid, yeah, and specific for that kid. Think of that learning experience. Why are we turning that away from our children?

Duarne 50:58

Yeah, I totally get it. I think it's like anything, introduce it in the correct format. It's a knife can be a weapon or it can be a tool, a hammer can be a weapon or a tool. It's how we teach people how to use it. And we are talking about an extremely powerful tool that can do wonderful things if you teach your children correctly how to use it. You know, it's like when you've got stairs in your home and you've got young children, you teach them how to safely navigate the stairs so they don't fall down the stairs, you know, and they don't get hurt. We can do the same thing with this technology. The internet, TikTok, they shouldn't be on TikTok, but you know, YouTube, all these different platforms. I mean, YouTube is on my television, every television in my house now. I can't get around it.

Dave 51:49

Well, you YouTube is now the number one, it's the number one TV source for live TV and anything. It's the number one media, is YouTube right now. Yeah, you know, and it's crazy.

Duarne 51:57

And it's a it's a free-to-wear service that for the entire population to use. They're doing wonderful, you know, and it's it's fantastic in what it can do. But in the same regard, I mean, I've got my 19-month-old walking around copying my eight-year-old son, picking up the phone with YouTube on it, or picking, you know, when she sees one laying around and starts yelling, what is it? Dougles, dougles, which is her version of Wiggles. So trying to do a voice prompt to get it to find what she wants to do. Because she's seen her big brother do it. So, I mean, they're learning already to interact with these technologies. So, yes, you can limit screen time and everything, but if you're using it from a point of view of a training tool, then why not? You know how many times I've wanted to learn something and ask for a tech, you know, give me a technique on how I can learn this, and it would give me techniques on how I could learn a new skill. I even saw it was crazy. I saw like an ad the other day where preppers have started creating mini computers with basic LN LMs on it with huge databases of information so there doesn't require an internet connection, they can just fire up these little computers that use almost no power

Real World AI Beyond The Hype

Duarne 53:20

and start asking questions and leave them in their bunkers. So, like, you know, how do I make this food? How do I, you know, find water? How do I, you know, what distinguish what is a poisonous mushroom, whatever that might be. I don't know. I'm just making stuff up here. But the idea is like a huge database that they've got on these storage on the storage of the devices with a little AI that runs and searches all of that information and brings back the responses based on what it comments and cross-references to other information within that database. So if one article mentions something, but there's another article that's actually got better information or notes that it feels it should you know advise you of, it can do so. I mean, it's you could there's so many different use cases for this, which is absolutely incredible, and not all of them are doom and gloom. You know, yes, I I feel if you're talking about AI controlled missile systems and stuff like that, big problem. But I was showing my wife this morning a video that I was watching from a vlogger out of China, and he was in a Mongolian open mine, uh open coal mine and was showing 90 metric ton capable or capacity full electric dump trucks with complete AI autonomy. 140 of these dump trucks travel a 60 kilometer round trip to pick up and drop off all the coal in minus 30 degrees Celsius temperatures in conditions that are not safe for most people to be out in for long periods of time. So AI is doing great things in parts of the world that we're not even aware of and being used in really positive ways as well. So using it with your children in the correct way could be a positive experience.

Dave 55:25

Yeah, I mean, ultimately it it does, it's their future. This is not going away, you know. So that's why when I hear people, I just you have to have the conversation, you have to open it up, and uh ultimately it's gonna be three years, or it could even be less, you know, but at least three to five years, it's going to be in every classroom, just like computers are in every classroom now. You know, they wanted to still have I remember being on like typing classes, you know what I mean? They don't have those anymore, they just give them a computer, you know what I mean? It's it's just it's crazy. It's so stop fighting. You have you have to embrace right, you have to embrace these things, you know. But as for for the episode, uh, it's really about understanding what's your passion, and again, this doesn't even have to be vibe coding, but it's like what is your passion, and then how can you use that uh to support people? Is there a need? You

Passion Projects And Starting Small

Dave 56:22

know, because there is a big difference, like a lot of people are gonna be passionate about something, but maybe can't potentially turn it into a business because there's not a need for it. But then again, how do you know unless you actually start? And how do you you know? So, you know, I'm a big Gary V component, I love or a proponent, sorry, not component. I don't do anything for him. Which component are you? Yeah, yeah, I'm a proponent for Gary V because I love watching this stuff. You know, it's motivational, you know, he's always positive. But his biggest thing is, you know, you know, you just gotta do there may be people out there that love cooking Italian food, you know, and want to watch those types of things. And if that's your passion, start doing it, start making something around it. You know, it's it's not gonna replace your full-time income right away. That's not the that that's not the fo like the the focus shouldn't be I want to replace my income right away. Their focus is I'm gonna do something that I'm passionate about to make my life enjoyable. That's how you should start anything, you know. Follow your follow you. You know, Warren and I can't tell you you, your spouse can't tell you you, your family can't tell you you. You are the only one who can actually tell you what you want to do, what makes you happy. And if you're trying to listen to everybody else first, you're never gonna be happy. You're always going to feel like you're missing something because you're not following yourself, and that's the biggest lesson that I think I have learned, you know, in my life, was I always was listening to other people because I didn't want to, for whatever reason, let them down. You know, it's probably one of the reasons I'm still living in Ohio, yeah, and in Cleveland. I hate the cold, but yet I'm still here because early on in my life, I always wanted to move away, but because I didn't want to let people down, I didn't want to, you know, move away and let the family down because they always made me feel bad for wanting to move. You know, I'm still here. And it's just a lesson learned. And so, you know, it's one of those things I tell my kids all the time. I said, guys, don't don't stick around for me, don't stick around for your mom. Right? If you want to stick around, stick around for you. That's the focus. And I think it's really hard as parents, too. Like, I get it. You want your kids to stay around. I get it. I'm I'm a parent, I have four kids, you know, gonna have two step kids

Parenting Freedom And Growth Mindset

Dave 58:44

that are grown as well. But you know, you literally have to let them have their freedom. That's the point. You have kids, it's not to keep them around you for the rest of your life. You have children to grow and then they flourish. Let them leave. If if you're making them feel bad because they want to move away or they want to go to another state, or they want to do any of that, like poo on you because you're only holding them back. Like, why are you trying why you I don't understand that? Like, I see my kids and I'm like, guys, I want you to achieve way more than me. I want you to go do things that I didn't get to do. Go do it. I am never gonna tell any of my kids, hey, I want you, you you can't do that. I don't like that. You know, I may give them advice, but ultimately the decision's there, and I'm never gonna make them feel bad for making a decision that wasn't the same as what I felt for them. That's biggest.

Duarne 59:44

Like for me, I feel parenting is you're in a you're a coach in an advisory role. You're trying to help them make as you know, as little bad choices as possible, but it's got to be their choice. You've got to, and you can guide them, you can help them. But our job is to give them as many skills as possible so that they are successful in life, that they are able to achieve, that they are a contributing member to society. I mean, that's the key here, right? And if that like with everything, if you're not feeling a little uncomfortable with what you're doing, you're probably not growing. You're probably not, you know, you're stuck in a comfort zone. And some people are happy with that, which is fine. But if you're one of those people that feels like you're a little uncomfortable in where where you're at the moment, that's probably a good thing. Probably means you're growing into that next stage, you're starting to develop and you know become the next part of your evolution.

Dave 1:00:40

Yeah, I and I I agree with that too. I there's things right now that I'm doing that I'm uncomfortable with, right? It decoding the growth. The that's when you learn when you put yourself in those uncomfortable situations, is you stretch yourself, you stretch your limits, and then then those become your new limits, and then you grow again, and you grow again. You know, you ultimately you think of your your knowledge, your experience as like an exoskeleton, you know, and you should be growing through it, just like you know, you think of a lot of the the animals in this world that shed their skin or their shells or any, you know, or their exoskeleton, you know. If they couldn't do that, and yet their bodies kept growing, they would die. They would literally squish themselves. That's kind of what you're doing by trying to stay in your comfort zone. You know, you're trying to get better, you're trying to grow, but yet you're trying to keep your outside this small, right? This tight, and uh, you're just gonna keep pushing and pushing and pushing, and you're just gonna feel like you're you're not getting you're not accomplishing anything because you you're not growing, you're keeping yourself in that realm. And so, yeah, the biggest thing you can do is is work at it. You're you're gonna suck at it first, trust me. You're going to suck. Yeah, you know, I'm I'm looking at the importance on your first app. Thank you for promise too much. Start small, just start something, you know, like a little dashboard or something, and just get used to it. But like I'm thinking of like I tried to when I first went, it was like a forecasting tool, you know, because we do finance and stuff. So it's gonna be a a forecasting tool for profit first clients for our, but it it sucked, like because I was trying to do it the old way, you know. I didn't know the coding, I didn't know any of that, so I was trying to do it like the what I thought was the easy way, and the math never worked. There was a lot of bugs, and you know, I probably spent a good three weeks doing a lot of vibe coding, getting good sort of insight, and then it didn't work. And so I tried version two and then got busy with other things, so I scrapped that, but then now the one that we're about to launch is is V3 essentially, and it's perfect. It it I wouldn't say it's perfect, there's but it's what I'm significantly better, it's a production ready almost. Yes, yes, you know, there's so many things that I wouldn't even dreamed of even trying to do in the first one where you got movable cards, save visions on the dashboard, the KPIs, like there's just so many things that we're able to build into this one because I've gotten that much education since and continued to grow, and that's ultimately what you need to be doing as a business owner is continuing to grow. So, but man, we talked about a ton today, you know. We and there's still so much more to hit on, you know. I feel like we could have a conversation every single day, you know what I mean, about different things that are going on in AI and what we're doing, and and giving those insights and that and that impactfulness that and it would never get old because there's always something new, you know.

Duarne 1:03:33

It's developing so quick, right? I mean, it's just constantly new apps, new programs. And look, at the end of the day, if you're a business owner, pick one thing that you're struggling at within your business that you think a system might help with or an app might help with, and then just start the conversation with one of these platforms about building this app and asking it to help you flesh it out and build and build out the plan for it. Then once you build a plan, start trying to build it and see what happens. Because you might be surprised. I mean, like I said, mine's coming from a pain point, Dave's is coming from a pain point, and these are just things that we saw weren't available in the market that met the that had limitations, or those limitations could have been features, pricing, whatever combination of the two. But once you get to the point where you imagine being able to launch an internal tool for you or your team to use that saved hours every single week to solve problems that you have, and you have to spend a couple hundred dollars on a subscription or some API code credits and a bit of your time to do, but it's and it's specific for your needs.

Dave 1:04:49

See, that's the thing that's out there specific to you, and what there's a lot of softwares, there's a lot of things, but every time you talk to somebody, my experience looking at it, it's like there's one or two things that are off, right? This is great, but there's one or two things that are off. That's great, there's three things that are off. Now you have the ability to create your own that is exactly what you want, and you're not paying for all the extra fluff. And that's why I say don't try to build out something that's large and huge, especially if you're trying to you know go into somewhere, because maybe people don't want all that extra level of you know the app, they are looking for something very simple. And if they see your app that's got all these bells and whistles, they're like, Oh, yeah, I don't I don't even want to do any of that. You know, it's one of the reasons why I think a lot of people stay away from go high level is because there are so many different variations of things that you can do in the platform. It's great, there's tons in there, but they get overwhelmed. And so if you do have different aspects, turn be able to turn things on and off, right? So that they don't even see it, that they don't even know it's there, you know, so that way they don't feel overwhelmed from the get-go. And I think that's the biggest piece, you know, advice there that I would say too, if you're trying to build out an in-depth thing, is make sure you can turn things on and off so that way you know people don't feel overwhelmed and try to feel like they have to learn everything and it's like, oh great, this is a one-out, you know.

Duarne 1:06:11

So absolutely. And look, if all of this seems like it's a lot, then maybe you need to start with just getting an understanding of what makes a good app good, what makes a good system good, and start doing serum research and educating yourself around that, then start putting together solutions because some of the easiest things that I see missed all the time in these sort of app development cycles is things like user permissions, logins, authentication, roles, all these little things come into big play because people don't think about it. They just assume, yeah, I'm just gonna use an app. They don't think about, oh, I need to get, you know, put a uh fence there and a gate so I can stop people coming in the front door. And let's put some two-factor authentication on it so because there's sensitive information in there. Let's make sure that we've got that information locked away from regular users or clients. If there's going to be client information in there, we want to have that visible just to the client that's logging in that's relevant to. So there's all these different tool things you kind of want to have a basic understanding of, in my opinion, before you start building something. Or if you're not sure of that, just ask the question and say, what things should I be aware of and focused on if I'm building this and let the systems tell you because it'll educate you because it knows it can take the information, like Dave said, from thousands and thousands and thousands of developers and systems, and apps, and documents, and books, and information across the internet, and decide. For that to your use case. Which is kind of scary and awesome at the same time.

Dave 1:07:57

Yeah, well, it it it is for sure. So I would say wrapping up, man. What what's that one thing you hope somebody walks away from today? I mean, we talked about a lot. We we got a lot in depth high-level stuff. We can get in depth, I guess, in anything, but that's the goal, is that we don't have enough time here to get in-depth with uh with anything. But what's what's that one thing that you hope somebody walks away with today?

Final Takeaways And How To Engage

Duarne 1:08:18

Look, whether it's trying out a skill or an AI agent or trying to build yourself an app with vibe coding, give it a try. Start with something, and it could just be you're building a custom GPT. Maybe you haven't even got to the let you're beyond that level yet. Do build a gem in Google Gem. Any of these sort of processes will get you started. And if you find yourself enjoying it, start investigating more and start down that path. And you might just find yourself smiling at work while you're working on one of these projects, and you may just find yourself a little distracted building something, but enjoying yourself doing it.

unknown 1:09:04

Yeah.

Dave 1:09:05

Yeah, I mean, I would say the the idea of testing and growing is the biggest thing that I want people to walk away from. Is that the version of you today should should be looking back at the version of you six months ago and be like, yeah, I would have never thought I'd be doing this, or I never thought I would have achieved what I have, or that I've learned what I've learned. That's the that's your that should be a minimum goal for you, like every six months, to be able to look back and say, oh wow, I I've done a lot, I've achieved a lot, I've learned a lot. And that's what I would say the biggest thing from this episode that I think I hope you walk away with is that you should not be trying to just maintain. You know, a lot of people get into that. And I get it, like you build your process in your system to try to maintain so that other people can do the maintaining for you. That's the ultimate goal. You want to continue to grow, and that's the biggest success piece in business, is if you're in business to just try to maintain, you're always going to fall behind, especially the pace at which the business world is moving today. So you have to be willing to evolve and then figure out okay, what's my process behind that? And then that's going to help you maintain the level while you're still growing and being that visionary for your business that you need to be. So if you got something out of this episode, I hope that you feel that it was worth to give it a like. Please share this video too if you're interested and you know there's people in your network that could benefit from some of this information. Uh, we're trying, as we say every episode, Triumph Business Solutions has a goal of impacting a thousand business owners by the end of 2028. And this is one piece of that. So, with that, appreciate you being here. If you're watching the replay, always feel free that you can ask questions. Drop them down below, shoot us an email, you know, drop a comment, however, you uh can engage. We will make sure either we're gonna answer it live in maybe one of our other episodes, or we'll get you an answer to that question, you know, in any medium. We want to make sure that we give you that support, that insight that you need. And with that, you know, stay, stay, make sure you're following, make sure you're you know hitting that notification bell. We got a lot of cool things coming out, you know, from Triumph Business Solutions. I know Dwarne's gonna have a lot of cool things coming out, you know, from his organizations as well. So follow, you know, and be there along the journey. And if you got cool wins too, like share them with us. I want to we want to celebrate your wins too. So if there's anything interesting that's going on in your world, feel free to share them and we can you know kind of highlight some of those in future episodes as well. So with that, we we love you all for being here. We love you all for the engagement, the following. Keep going, keep pushing. As I always say, you know, it's temporary. It's funny, I was on a podcast on LinkedIn the other day, and a guy you know had asked me, he's like, What's one, what's fun, one final thing that you would say to people? And it was I've said this for a while in the past, in like my old like vlogging days, where I think I've vlogged for like 30 days or something like that. But I always try to end the episodes with, you know, it's temporary. No matter what you're going through, it's temporary. If you're if you're in a lull or you're in a you know a valley, you know, it's it's it's going to end as long as you're willing to put the effort in and you'll reach that next peak. And so keep pushing forward, keep making you know each day the best day that you can, and you'll you'll break through. So anything you're facing right now, it's only temporary. So, but with that, Dwarne, thanks for joining me for another episode. For those of you that are here, uh, we love you. We hope you have a wonderful and amazing rest of your week. And we'll see you guys, we'll see you guys next week. Have a good one.