Welcome To Business Unscripted

Dave 0:02

Welcome to the Physical Crypto Podcast. We're here to share real life insights, practical strategies, and the honest lessons that we have learned from our own state because we have been in your community. So whether you need help with operations, accountability, financial knowledge, detail, maybe just getting your mindset right. We are here and it is the right spot for no fluff conversations and tools to help work. So grab your favorite cup of Joe. Let's jump into the show. Let's jump into the show as that famous, amazing, you know, wonderful sounding man on the voiceover says. Grab your favorite cup of Joe. Let's jump into the show. It's another Friday morning. So it's business unscripted. We're here for episode 71. If you're a business owner, aspiring business owner, maybe you have some questions, you're going through some things, you're in the right spot because we're here to share our lessons, things that we've gone through, experiences, things that we're doing right now, as well as things that we help our clients with on a weekly, daily, monthly basis to get over the obstacles that you may be facing in your own business so you can learn from us so that you don't have to experience those things long term, like sometimes we have. So you're in the right spot. Another episode, brother. Welcome. Hope things are going well on the other side of the world. Oh, I uh you're muted. Oh so this is why you go live, right? We're you know, sometimes you have these uh technical issues. So he's unmuted now.

Duarne 1:28

We were how are we doing? Like it's that's so crazy, right? We were just talking, we were just watching

Flood Prep And Office Tradeoffs

Duarne 1:35

not muted. I don't know why it muted me. Gotta love technology. So oh yeah, we're doing all right here. I just checked Facebook feed earlier and a little bit of localized flooding around the area. Thankfully, it we are not flooding this time, so you know, prayerfully, that is a good thing for us. Not so good for everyone else who's suffering from a little bit of flooding localized here tonight.

Dave 1:58

Yeah, I I can. I mean, I think you would you were talking a little bit last last week, I think it was pre you about how you've kind of taken some precautions now, which is one of those things that you have to invest, and it's better to invest now than later and doing all the work and then wishing you've invested. So uh it's one of those things.

Duarne 2:21

True easy, right? I mean, we and look, it meant making compromises too, because we're meant to be starting an office fit out next month for a new office, and in the meantime, I've got to build my wife an office and fix up the electrical situation here in the uh office area at the back of the house. And because of the flood mitigation that took a whole week, we now are a week behind on officer fit-outs. So yeah, it's okay because at the end of the day, it is still better to be prepared for those sort of situations, and the delay just means I can come up with more crazy ideas to include in the fit out.

Dave 3:02

So it's all good. Well, and we know you're full of crazy ideas. So, Paige, if you're listening to this, I feel sorry for you. I'm sorry. Well, she's getting her own work, she doesn't have to share with me when once she's good. So I think she's happy about that fact. She's probably happy for sure about that, where she's like, Oh my god, thank god.

Duarne 3:19

Oh, yeah, it's like how many times I have to a meeting, and I just feel so bad because I'm like, she just has to listen to me talk to clients during the day, like that's gotta suck. So no, not at all. I mean he's like, hmm, I've never considered that. Other people having to listen to me have my conversations all day.

Dave 3:42

Yeah, I mean, I guess depending on how how much they like you, she must really love you to have to do that. Or how I guess how often is she going into the house, you know, just randomly just to get away from you.

Duarne 3:59

Well, I don't know. Sometimes she says I'll be back and then just doesn't come back and finds excuses with the kids to stay in the house. So maybe that's something to do with it.

Dave 4:08

Yeah, you may find out one day like down the road, it's like, oh, you know, mom told us just to like need her really bad because she just needed to get away from dad.

Duarne 4:17

Well, I'm looking forward to her having her own office and her own space because that means I'd get my own space and my own office back again, too. So true, yeah. It's uh I might be able to spread some things out and have a

Building A Workspace That Works

Duarne 4:30

workbench off to the side and all sorts of cool stuff. So we'll see.

Dave 4:33

Yeah, that's one of the things I am looking forward to as well. Like, you know, I I work in a in a co-working spot, which is really nice with other business owners, which is pretty cool. But we have been talking about expanding, and I need more of an office too for more space, right? Not in some of the things that we've been talking about on a regular basis, but you know, helping clients and one of the one of the solutions is like it's their machine here at our office that you know we're running for them instead of sending to that. So I think the ability to have an office space that could have those things, I think is I'm looking forward to it for sure. And being able to just not like we were just talking about somebody listening, like if that's somebody else in the co-working office, which there's not a lot, there's just like me and one other person that's typically here all the time. But I do feel bad when I have a lot of meetings and they're trying to get some work done, like they probably don't want to sit here and listen to me all the time. So it would be nice, and I'm looking to having still same co-working space. We're just looking to expand and get some more people in and you know get a bigger space. So it's pretty cool. So I can only imagine now having you.

Duarne 5:43

It's a realization moment, isn't it?

Dave 5:44

It's like hmm, just like you can make things, you can move things, you're not just stuck to where the desk is, like you can move it around and make it feel a little bit more personal, put things up on the walls that are yours, right? You know, so there's a lot of cool things that I'm thinking about when it comes to like building it out that way. But well, if it makes it a lot of people, I mean I remember the one time you shared your like I thought I was bad. You might like three ultra wide screens. But then I look, I think back to like your setup at your office right now, where it's just like I would never be able to, even with ADHD, comprehend everything that's going on. Like what you have to do. It's really fun. I think what is it, five, like 28 inch?

Duarne 6:25

I got five 24-inch screens across the bottom and two 55 inch 4K screens at the top, and I just installed a 29-inch ultra-wide in length mode over here, which is connected to my two coding machines. So, two dedicated coding machines on a switch, so I can switch between them when I need to with an extra keyboard and mouse. My main system works with a single keyboard and mouse and seven screens.

Dave 6:52

For those who think because obviously, how do you so you're on Mac, and I guess we're we're really off topic for what we wanted to go to today, but I this is also a question, and I because I just like to pick people's brains that know things that I don't, which is if you want to learn from something here, find people that know things that you want to know or that have expertise that you don't have and ask them about it, which is why I love having conversations with Warren. But so you're on Mac, right? You run Mac.

Duarne 7:17

No, I used to be on Mac. I have them, I have a Mac Studio here on my desk, but it's only good for a few screens. So I've just got that as one of my coding machines. So I got a Windows coding machine and I'll get a Mac coding machine. I have a bunch of little Mac minis, which are all just coding machines and agents. My main computer is actually a Ryzen AMD processor, 64 gigab memory, running two graphics cards and Windows. That's how I'm able to run it seven. So I'm running two RTX graphics cards from Nvidia, and I run seven screens through those.

Dave 7:54

And and that's not custom built, like you didn't just buy that off the shop.

Duarne 7:58

Yeah, no, I bought all the parts, built it myself, and then set it up, and it's been pretty rock solid for a couple of years. I used to build computers back in the day, that was my thing. And then I've also got a little cluster of mini computers up here behind me on the top shelf. There's about 17 of them up there at the moment, another 10 to go in, and those just little Linux machines, which are set up as virtual machines, so I can run my own apps and I can build my own games and hosting stuff, and I can host them local on that so that um I can access and build on there, which is super handy because I love building lots of random stuff, and I don't want to have to go and pay for a new server to get ran up somewhere every time I need to do that.

Dave 9:20

And that's uh again, your your setup is not typical of what a you somebody needs, right, to to run their business. I would say you know, maybe one or two screens would be fine, depending on how many how many computers you're running. Obviously, we're in a different realm where like you don't have to have 12 different computers, which I could see myself getting to that point.

Duarne 9:42

My wife probably a single computer, three screens, and she loves it. We're about to switch a machine out for a laptop, and we're gonna run that through a doc so that'll actually have three screens plus a laptop with the screen on the laptop. So she'll go to four screens.

Dave 9:59

But so let me ask you, let me ask you a good question that people

Mac Vs Windows For Small Business

Dave 10:03

maybe like if they're just getting into it or maybe they're they're questioning, like you've used both as a small business owner. Like, what would you suggest to them, you know, versus Apple versus Mac or sorry, that's the same thing, Mac versus like a Windows machine as their main system that they're gonna be working on on a regular basis? Like, how would you advise somebody or tell them what to choose?

Duarne 10:30

Sure. I mean, look, Mac's expensive, that's the big thing, right? And the Mac has a very high price of entry. The only reason I've got the Macs that I do is because I bought a lot of them used and I bought them for a purpose. That's why I bought them. So if you're in the graphic design, if you're in development, if you're in anything that's I guess creative, Mac is really good. But I use Mac for 10 years. I switched from Windows, went to Mac for like 10 years, and I needed a new PC or a new computer, and I'm like, you know what? I just don't want to pay the money that Mac's asking. It's just silly money. So I decided to get myself a Windows laptop. And Windows 11 feels pretty nice for the person who's moving from Mac to Windows. It's actually pretty nice to move across to, and it's not too dramatic. The reality is though, most business owners only ever work out of a browser nowadays. And the apps that you use are going to be video-based apps, and maybe and even like it depends on whether you're a Google user, the Google's workspace, or if you're a Microsoft user. Either way, you still get a suite of tools you can install if you need to on either device. So it doesn't really matter anymore. The biggest key is whatever the biggest bang for buck you can get, the more memory you can get in a machine and the faster the speed is, the longer longevity you're going to get out of that machine. A lot of people who like going down the Mac path enjoy the fact that they can get a little bit more life out of it. So they get a little bit more use out of it because of the quality of the build and the supported operating system for a longer period of time without you know slowing down. And they've also got good resale value. So you can still sell them for reasonable money four years later, five years later. It's just insane. Like the resale value is really quite high compared to Windows. Windows basically just thrown away.

Dave 12:30

Oh, I mean, like, so I and I'm with you. So from your advice, the Mac minis that I got are used, and I haven't had any issues with them. You know what I mean? And they're like one of them I had bought about a year ago or whatever, and it's like even like the older generation, not the M chip, which I probably would have chosen an M chip if I needed to at the time, but it's beyond the point. But even the second one I bought that's got the I think the M1 or the M2 chip in it. I mean, it's I haven't had any issues with it, and I think it's like a 21 or 22 something like that. So you know, you're talking four four or five years old, and it runs my business on a regular basis, and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg like it would have if it was you know expected cheap or you know, a couple years old from Windows. And when you talk about resale value, like that's that's true because I had a gaming laptop that was a Windows, you know, and I think I spent $1,800, $1,900 on that thing brand new during I think it was right after COVID, COVID, because you couldn't like get the you know the Xbox anywhere when I was trying to upgrade. And then I think four years later I got like a $90 on a trade-in for it. You know, uh and even then like the resale value out of you know was maybe $150, you know. Yeah. Um whereas you know, a Mac, you can go now and you can find Mac Mac books that were you know $15, $16,000, $1,700 brand new, they're still selling for four or five hundred that you know are older. You know what I mean? So it's like and that's where I think my MacBook Pro I bought four years now when I first started the business. And I could, I think this thing was like in 2000. I probably could still get four or five hundred dollars, even on traded. I'm gonna think four or five hundred through through. So there's still a lot of value with it, depending on what you get. And I think that's the point that you want to look at, and then we can kind of jump into the stuff we actually wanted to talk about today. But well, funnily enough, one other thing. The RAM is the biggest piece, the two things is RAM, and then the other thing that I'm finding right is storage, right? And and now, and you can tell me if I'm wrong here, but I think the minimum you should consider is 16 gig in in terms of RAM right now. And then if you're gonna be doing a lot of like workflows and processes and things like that, you even want to start looking at like 2432, but you're the expert in that area.

Duarne 14:57

Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna if you're a heavy Chrome user or a heavy browser user and you're using lots and lots of browsers, Windows is probably a better choice for you because Windows is cheaper to get a 32 gig machine and you can have all those browser windows open, whereas a 16 gig MacBook Air or a MacBook Pro, price is much higher on those. And whilst they're really quick at doing regular work, video editing, and all that sort of wonderful stuff, if you're not doing it, it's kind of a dead money for you. But it really also, like for me, I'm very particular with my notebooks. I really, really like Apple notebooks because the quality of their screens, it's just something about the screen quality I love, the color, the way it shows, etc. It's very hard for me to really enjoy using a Windows machine that has a you know, unless it's got a really good screen. I've had my current Windows laptop is a Microsoft Surface Pro Slide 2, so it's like a really nice tablet screen, so it's really quite nice. But I mean, we're talking like that machine was like three and a half grand new, right? Like it's ridiculous. You can get a Mac for about the same sort of price, but just not as spec'd up as that was at the time. For me, I've got I spent the money now pretty much as much as I could have got a Windows laptop for for an iPad 13-inch. Uh it's an M2, and that's a decent iPad. You go out and spend a couple hundred dollars on a nice keyboard, touchpad, and a folio case with a pen, you could travel around and do the work you need on that in most cases, and then use a desktop back in the office when you need to have a little bit more space on your screens. And depending on what software you use, and there's plenty of good software out there that can be note-takers that can send information back, and there's plenty of great tools. We're going to talk about one of them later, where you can set up communication channels and just communicate to it, and it'll send it back to your main computer to do the work in the office for you. So, I mean, you've got really so many options these days, and the majority of people, battery longevity, Apple still beats Windows in most cases, unless you're doing really heavy editing or coding. That's when it really makes a big difference. But I did read that the memory situation is going to be a problem for another minimum three to five years, based on what I'm saying, because the AI revolution that's here is just requiring larger and larger amounts of memory, and demand is there and the cost to make it's you know.

Dave 17:44

Well, you know, it's funny is that you you when we were talking about this before a little bit, you had mentioned like Apple hadn't changed anything, you know, it hadn't changed their pricing because they had like invested in their memory for a while, but now they they they had to succumb to it too. You know, they they reset off all their prices, you know what I mean.

Duarne 18:03

So it's like yeah, it's and it was a big jump for a lot of people, it was like hundreds of dollars per unit sort of thing.

Dave 18:09

Yeah, and especially like when you when you think of uh small business versus like people like us who are need like the 64 gig eventually you know memory that's gonna help you. I mean you're talking uh I always look I just happen to be looking at some used right uh on eBay. These things are uh and and maybe they're just crazy price because people are putting them out there, but they have these Mac minis that are like you know 65, 124 or 228 gig uh uh RAM with like one, two, six terabytes, but they're selling these things for like seven to thirteen thousand dollars. Yeah, right? Like holy cow, like I could never see investing.

Duarne 18:52

I mean, I could see it maybe down the road, but could you imagine like that's almost like what you could could pay for an entire

Mac Mini Vs Studio Plus Upgrades

Duarne 18:58

like Windows server setup, you know, and uh well if you have a look, there's a little there's a lot of people using mini PCs right now as well. So there's a company out there called JMK Tech, and they're a Chinese-based company, and they're doing some really great things in the mini PC space. They've got a really nice AI first chip called the Ryzen 395 Plus chip. Okay, it comes with 128 gig of memory installed in their new device. It's got ridiculously good cooling, it's about I don't know, probably about one foot high, about six inches wide and about two inches deep. It's very, very slim light. It can be stood up and just sat off to the side as a tower, and it's got two heat distribution chambers in it to help with the cooling. That unit sells for about $4,000. All right, for 128 gig unit. Now, if you do localized AI coding on it or a localized AI usage on it, it's about as effective as a Mac Silicon, so a studio with 128 gig of memory, which is what you're describing there before. And that's gonna set you back for one of those units around about nine, 10 grand, you know, at the moment with current memory pricing. So like I spent two grand on a used studio with 64 gig of memory here, and it's just they're so rare for again.

Dave 20:36

We're really into this one, right? But Mac's Mac Mini Studios versus just a Mac mini. Like, what's the difference? Like, why why what's why would somebody choose a studio over a Mac mini? And I guess this is for for my preference as well. From you, pick your brain, and then we'll move on. I know it's an alright, but this is that unscripted part that we've got. Hey, it's okay, right?

Duarne 20:58

I mean, this is unscripted. There's there's actually two models of Mac Mini. You've got a Mac Mini Regular, which is, and then you've got a Mac Mini Pro, and then you've got the Mac Studios. The Studio is the big boy, it's about double the size, triple the size of a Mac Mini in footprint size. They have so many more cores for the CPU, for the GPU, and the NPU. So the neural processor, the graphic processor, and the central processor for the compute. They also come in different sizes of memory. Now, the Mac Mini generally tops out, I think, at around about 32 gig of memory. I think some of them might get up to 48 gig now. I'd have to check. But the Pro can go up to 64 and beyond. And a studio can go up to 512 gigamemory. Gotcha. So they're a much bigger platform for that purpose. Why would you get a studio? Well, it's kind of like if you're a production house and doing lots of graphic design manipulation, 3D rendering, uh, or a lot of AI manipulation and coding locally. That's the reasoning for that. If you're doing a you're just a regular user, just a Mac mini. Mac mini M4 or an M5 16GB 256 storage, probably get 512 storage if you can afford it. But there's also external hard drives you can plug in to get extra storage if needed, or cloud storage if you don't necessarily need it local. Majority of people, like I mentioned before, are using. Using apps that are browser based. So the browser say based apps typically sable that on the server. You don't have to hold that data local on your machine. So the Pro, the mini pros, is like a sweet spot in between. They got good memory, lots of CPU cores, lots of GPU cores, and lots of NPU cores. The other big thing between all three is they all have different speeds of memory. So yes, it's it might be 32 gigamemory, but the speed that it writes to the processor might be 30% of the speed of what a studio writes. So it's got a much higher speed of writing that information to and from the memory. Which is pretty incredible. That was something, and I only realized that a little bit recently when I went out looking what the big differences were between them from an AI user's perspective, and how that differs to using like a Windows machine with a graphics card. If you use an NVIDIA graphics card, like say an RTX 5090 graphics card, which are very hard to get, and they're worth four to five thousand dollars if you can get your hands on one typically. Those things are 32 gigamemory on a graphics card, so they call it video memory, which is the perfect memory for using for AI coding and manipulation and processing.

Dave 23:59

That's in a Windows machine.

Duarne 24:01

You can run it in a Windows or a Linux machine, yeah. Not in a win in a Mac machine. A Mac uses unified memory, which is soldered into the device, which means you can never upgrade it. So that's the other big thing. If you're a Windows person, you probably bought a computer that you have the ability to upgrade, whereas if you bought an Apple, you cannot upgrade.

Dave 24:24

No, yeah, you're you're in that's the only thing I the downfall of Apple is like what you buy is what you get. Like besides an external hard drive, the actual components that actually run the machine, you're locked in.

Duarne 24:37

Um it's like buying a cell phone. You buy a cell phone and you're locked in on that hardware, and it's the same thing with these Apple computers. Yeah, and it did actually have a period of time where it used to allow for customization, and then they took it away and they put it back, and now they're back to you can't customize them. And they do it, and they've got it because of the way they've built them now. It's a performance-related concern, which is why they've done it this way. Gotcha. So lots of different options, lots of different use cases, but it really comes down to Windows, Apple, you can make either work for your business these days. Neither one is any more secure than the other. If you're running a Windows, always run antivirus, even if it's just Windows Defender on the unit to protect yourself from viruses, run good cybersecurity regardless of which device you're using. The situations you find is the software that's on available for both is compatible with both. And if it's not available, then there's going to be an alternative that's going to be available for the other option for the other device. It really just comes down to as well what you're comfortable using. If you've used Windows your whole life and you try using Mac, you may just feel really awkward. It's like someone, if they hand you an iPhone and you're an Android person or an Android person gets an iPhone, you feel really awkward trying to use it. Right.

Dave 25:58

No, and and I and I I get that too, you know, it which is one of those things where it's like I love the continuity with Apple, right? So like if I really wanted to, because I have Apple iPhone, iPad, all that kind of stuff, right? So I could with my computers potentially just immediately pair my phone as an extra camera. Like if I really there's so many things that you could do. You know, I love the fact that I could copy something on my phone and it's instantly available to paste on my computer. You know what I mean? So there's like these different things that depending on how you're using it, and it's just ease of use. But I think what I'm hearing from you that's important to the user overall is right kind of understand how you want to use it, what your budget is, and even if like you don't have to buy new, like search use, like yeah, you can go out, like you don't have to just because you're in a new business. Oh, I gotta go out and I gotta buy right the brand new computer. You could write off as an expense, right? A used computer, you know, and you can get a lot of good value, especially like we're coming into a time right now with Apple where they're expected, well, they have announced the M5 chips, and with the Mac minis, right?

Backups Compliance And Data Control

Dave 27:45

They haven't announced when the release date is, but essentially all these M4s are gonna they're gonna drop in value when the M5s do come out. But right now they're you're in a little weird spot, right, in terms of like the the price route right now because there are no new M5s coming out, so people are trying to get the most that they can for the M4s.

Duarne 28:01

But well, that's it, and there's this weird scenario where you can get you can still go out and buy 16 gig M2 Mac minis, and they're perfectly fine. Yeah, when you look at the actual specs, we're probably talking about a 15% performance difference, which is almost nothing for the average user.

Dave 28:17

Brian, is it still good to have backup for your data? For your data, should the app provider go belly up? You don't want to lose previous projects, things like that. Sorry, and when you need to recall it in the future. So I'm gonna let you answer that one. I got you.

Duarne 28:35

Whenever possible, you should have a backup of your own data. And if you are, and I actually had a client actually just recently talk to me about an accounting software out of Texas, she's Australian-based, and one of the things that she was concerned about at the time was where the data was being held. And it became then became a whole conversation where I was asking, well, if you want to go down that path, then you need to ask a few questions. Where is it getting held? Who has access to it? Where's the development team based? Does the development team access have access to that data? How critical is that data? And do you have to declare where that data is? And if they mess up your data or lose your data, then what's the consequence? Do they have backups and what's their variations on that? So, yeah, any app you get, you should definitely be looking to try and get a copy of data if possible. It should be something that you can at least transfer or move around. So you should definitely have some form of a backup in place.

Dave 29:35

It's part of that too, right? So be mindful also when you are you're signing up for any sort of platform. Yeah, like where is your data? You know, does it give you the ability to export a backup locally?

Duarne 29:50

And also if your industry, like you might be HIPAA compliant, so you might have to make sure that you're whoever you're using has HIPAA compliance in place, or you may need to make sure that this data sovereignty so it can't be offshore. Maybe they've got a backup location of data which sits in India, or maybe they've got a development team that sits in India and does all your development for you, and that's not allowed.

Dave 30:14

So and I and I think part of that too is is also then understanding you mentioned like custom development, things like that. So if you are having somebody actually custom develop something for you, make sure in the agreement or something like that that talks about like who

Custom Software Ownership And Exclusivity

Dave 30:28

who owns the actual code, right? And and I'm sure you know I've had conversations with clients too. So there's obviously two ways to do it. One, you I can you can create something specifically for your business, which means you should have in the writing that when the project's complete, the code is yours, they don't have any right to the code anymore. Or if you are looking to save a little bit more money and the person that's coding it for you sees opportunity in the actual project, could give you a cheaper, shorter development cost if they maintain the right to the platform as a whole and then they license it to you.

Duarne 31:04

So there's some it's almost a shared partnership, which is more absolutely, especially when you have like so but then you gotta be aware too that your product could end up in your competitors' hands. Correct. So the product that you've gone and had the great idea and had someone else go out and build could end up somewhere else. But then in the to keep that.

Dave 31:25

But then there's a big long, I mean, I guess we can go down the road, right? The idea there would be you know negotiating into the agreement how long maybe specific aspects of that are only like so you know, maybe you have exclusivity to specific pieces that are your ideas that you gave to them for a period of whatever X amount of years, so that way at least you know you're ahead of your competitors or whatever before they begin to market it, things like that. Absolutely. Also, you know, maybe you lock in your price for a lifetime. There's a lot of things that you could potentially go through and negotiate.

Duarne 31:58

There's one thing to keep in mind too, Dave, is that in the world of software development, you only have to change, I believe it's 10% to actually have something as a as that's no longer a copy. So if you change 10 to 20 percent of the code, because by the time you build something, if it takes 12 to 18 months to build something, for example, by the time you go from idea concept through to launch, you there's probably going to be better ways of doing parts of the project along the way, and you're not gonna go back and redo parts that were already done because it's already been a milestone in your past. So, in a lot of cases, if you have an unscrupulous developer, they may just go out and rebuild the whole thing in a smarter, more compact solution for you for someone else, and then sell it as a similar product that does the same functionality but different. So, therefore, not breaching any form of copyright. So, what I'd say if you are getting custom development done and you are cautious about that sort of thing, is just make sure you talk to a lawyer, make sure you get some contracts drawn up so that there is a little bit of exclusivity in what they're building for you. But be aware that if there is, it's like anything with exclusivity, you have to pay for the you know, pay for it. It's gonna be a cost related to it, it's gonna be higher because developers are gonna want to try and reuse portions of the code. They might want to try and reuse components.

Dave 33:25

It's it's a question I hear a lot that I've I've gotten. A question was actually submitted about it. It's like, should I should I build a custom tool or should I just buy a software that's already out there? And in reality, like it really comes down like if your funding is limited and there's there's something out there that fits your needs, I would always go to like the default is like buy something that's already there, or you know, invest in that aspect. However, I would say as you begin to grow, you're probably gonna see there's a couple things like in any platform that you wish could be your you know changed, or functionality to serve your workflows a little bit better. That's where looking into kind of building something for yourself is more generalized, right? And it makes more sense because now you can take all the functionality you like from a diff default software or you know, mass software and make it custom to your organization, and you have the ability to kind of change it, you know, make impacts to it, you know, add different users, however, whatever you're end up doing. So, you know, to think of buy something versus create it ourselves, I would always obviously default to find something that's already there that fits 90% of your needs. And then once you kind of get past that and you're at a place that makes sense and you have the the funds to invest in your custom, which now it's not even as much as it used to be. Like, you know, before thinking custom apps on custom program, I mean it would be you know 10, 15, 20 minimum thousand dollars to to kind of create that. Now you can find something that you know you could probably develop, you know, depending on the software. Yeah, I've quoted a couple thousand, you know, if that, you know, depending on it depends on the product. It really depends on the yeah, it's all so there's no one set fits one size fits all like pricing when it comes to it, i.e. software.

Duarne 35:17

Oh and this is what and you know what's another thing I think we need to we need to touch on there is yeah, get out and get to know some people. See, Brian. One of the things that I think we need to touch on here is get involved in the industry a little bit because there is so many times that you don't know what your competitors are using, and a lot of sometimes they're not even competitors, they're just people doing the same thing in a different region, and they're willing to mentor, share information, they've got forums and groups they can share information on, and what you might find is they've got a piece of software off the shelf that does about 80-90% of what you want, they've already tried something else, they've already got some experience that they can help you stop making a mistake on the wrong software. And it's really interesting because when we start talking about software off the shelf, it's so easy to give your staff software fatigue when you keep switching software because you want to test it, you want to see if it does what you want, and then bang, no, that's not the right one. I'm gonna try another one. No, that's not the right one. There's processes and policies and procedures you've put in place and training you put in place. Eventually, people will stop caring and they'll just won't learn any of it because they're like, well, we're just gonna change it again anyway in a couple of months. So, what's the point? So if you are getting something off the shelf, make sure it's something which is at least most of the way to where you want it to be, and you get it set up as quick as you can the way you want it to be used, because that's gonna give you the best chance for you and your team to accept it and use it.

Dave 36:56

Um, and and that, and like you said, like make sure that it's usable and the pieces, I guess, and and like you may look at a software and 90% of it works, but the 10% could be the most impactful 10% that you need to run your business most effectively, right? Yeah, so you also got to be mindful of what is missing, you know. Exactly. And if the missing pieces are something that's in, you know, something that is you know mandatory, then you probably have to choose another piece of software because there may be something that's like 80% of what you need, but it's got that 10%. That's way better of a decision than something that's 90% without the 10% that you really need.

Duarne 37:35

So absolutely I had this conversation with my brother actually, he's about his business and he needed a phone system, and he was sharing how much it was going to cost. I was like, Oh my gosh, that's expensive. You should go and talk to a buddy of mine, he does

When Expensive Software Saves Money

Duarne 37:48

phone systems, and he's like, tried that. My problem is we have a very specific use case because we use predominantly Apple devices in our business, and customers are sharing lots of photos and videos with us, as well as phone calls and text messages. I need a phone system that can handle all of that just like they were communicating to a single Apple phone, but to my whole team. And he found one, but it was a cost of about $750 a month, which is about 10 times more than what a regular phone system should cost on a monthly basis for his size team. And I was like, wow, okay, when you put it like that, he goes, Look, honestly, it's just we miss out on effect effective communication with our clients, which costs us time, costs us money. So when he put it like that, he it was realized that $750 investment was actually a very good investment because it cut down on so many problems along the way. And it was the right software for the at the time. So, how many times have we been in a situation where we looked at a piece of software and no, that's just too expensive. I'm gonna get something else, only to find it didn't do the parts we really needed it to do. Sometimes that's why those other pieces of software are the cost that they are.

Dave 39:09

We added against the and this is this is a great example. That is a perfect example of niching. And again, I love our show. This is the none of this topic that we have talked about so far today have been any of the three things that we wanted to talk about pre-show. We planned to maybe we were like, oh, like these are some good things that happened this week. But like, for example, that is a great, great example of niching, and this is why I have this conversation a lot with people. They especially if you're just starting out as a business owner, you're like, I don't I don't want a niche, I I wanna, I'm still figuring that out, or X, Y, and Z, whatever the rules are. That phone system that is 10 times more is specific for people, right, with Apple products, and they can charge 10 times more because of that. If you are and and everybody else that's charging the 75, it's because well we service 99% of the market, so we're only we can only charge this because we're competing with price everyone on everybody else, right? That's the problem if you don't have a niche in your business. So if you pick two or three niches and how you become an expert at that, and you be and you message to that specific market, now you can charge more because you only work with that specific market and you show the results for that market, which is who that person is. That's step one. Step two is also realizing that from the point that you picked out, right? Is that price should not always be uh the first thing that you consider, right? Funding should not, you know, first it would be funding, like what is our actual sort of funding available? It's good to know, but you may actually find that let's say in this case, maybe he set out and he's like, you know what, I have I'm gonna budget two to $250 per month, right? For this, because he had no idea yet. If he only limited himself to that, he would have probably tried to force feed something else or just not done anything and continue to lose out on the sales because the 750 was three times as much.

Duarne 42:01

Yeah, well, in that situation, the prime example was sorry to catch you there, single phone, work phone was given to an employee who just proved to be a little unreliable, and that just proved to cost time, money, as well as cost customers, right? So, I mean, there was consequences to earnings and reputation at that point. So, I mean, so this is like that versus the rest.

Dave 42:29

Yep, this is this is that prep, right? He knew these things, he knew the errors of what he needed to solve, right? And so I think a lot of people go to a software and they don't think is in-depth about it. Like, what is this? What is a problem that I'm trying to overcome? And what are the outcomes of the problem that I'm facing right now? And this is kind of twofold. It's one, if you're looking for something in your business, but two, you should start thinking of these as you're selling as well, because it's how you're gonna help people see the value in what you do. Absolutely in this case, right? He knew though, he knew he was losing customers, he knew he was getting bad reviews, he knew things were slipping through the cracks, X, Y, and Z. And he knew the value of those things. So when he was given the hey, this is $750 a month, he was now able to analyze. All right, I only budgeted $250 for in the example, it's now $750. What is the loss? What is the value of the loss that I'm facing right now? Right? Recurring, new, you know, customer relations, all of that kind of stuff. And as you mentioned, he's like, it was well worth it because of the fact that he probably realized he was losing three, four, ten times that a month by having the current system. So it's a good investment to say, all right, you know what, I'm gonna go three times over because I know I'm gonna get this much back as an ROI. And that's the important piece of under being under being able to when you're on the purchasing side, know that up front. But if you're on the seller side, which as a business owner, you're you're a salesman, unless you have a specific sales team, but still you got to help train. You need to understand your customer the same way, right? You need to understand what is the support that you're providing, right? What are the problems that I'm helping them overcome, and what is the typical uh you know cost savings? And sometimes you're not gonna understand all of that right away, but this is why you have to ask them those types of questions in your conversations with your prospects so that they can tell you. And while they're telling you, they're persuading themselves and they're also giving themselves the information you didn't force feed it to them, even if you know the answer. Think of you know, you're a doctor, right? You are a doctor in the conversation. Uh a doctor doesn't come in to you in the well visit room and immediately come out and point out everything that they think is wrong with you based on the limited information that they have, right? They come in, they ask questions about what are you feeling, where are your symptoms, where's your pain, they start poking and prodding at things, and you're telling them what's happening, you know, and then they're able to diagnose. That's kind of what you're like when you're in these first, second, third meetings, depending on what your sales process is, with your prospect. You're poking and prodding in a in a gentle way, in a concerning way. Hopefully. Yeah, hopefully, you know, you're doing you're not just sounding like you're reading off a script or anything like that, but uh in a way that's helping them see uh the loss value, their time being eaten up, and the money that they're losing or they could make uh in their own words, if they just had more time to do it, uh by a solution that you may or may not be able to provide for them. Because remember, you still uh aren't locked in. So it's not, hey, we will do this for you. It's like but we might be able to help with that if X, Y, and Z, right? So I think that's a good example to kind of go down a rabbit hole of some some, you know, on the fact of being prepared on both sides, no matter what you're doing in your business, is important, and not making uh the monthly amount uh the uh piece that you uh pay attention to. Because in some some cases, it does make sense to maybe invest a little bit more because it's more supportive for your business. You know what I mean? So that's kind of what I heard from that scenario. So I just want to kind of share that example.

Duarne 46:38

I totally agree with that. We had a scenario just this this week where we went out and had a meeting with a local business owner about a particular business that we're looking at building a system in. We've already planned out the system and we presented it. They loved it, they thought it was great. And we sent the proposal

Subscription Pricing And Walking Away

Duarne 46:56

out the next day, everything was very clear, and then we get a phone call going, why am I after paying every month? Why is there a subscription? This you know, and it was interesting because my wife Paige took the call, and the and the paige used the scenario of well, it's like Netflix. You sign up to Netflix, if you stop paying Netflix or unsubscribe, you lose access to Netflix, right? So I I lose the booking system that I'm gonna be relying on. Well, it's more than just a booking system, but yeah, you would lose access to the booking system. Why can't I just own it? Well, sure you can, but you just have to pay for that if you want to own it up front rather than licensing it like we talked about earlier, there's a much, much larger cost. And additionally, there was all this other value thrown in, like we were doing logo concepts right at the beginning in the meet first meeting and winning over some really big you know wins with her and her team. And I just said to Paige after a call, I said, you know what? If she doesn't get it, that's cool. Let's just withdraw the proposal. Because at the end of the day, we've already spent two hours on site explaining it and going through it, and got handshakes that it was all great. We sent a proposal and it was all very clearly laid out in there, and we had that call and it was laid out, and they just kept just kept pushing for a lower price. I thought, you know what? She doesn't understand our value. It's okay. I'm gonna pull the proposal. So I pulled the proposal. And do I feel bad about it? Nope. Because I basically made the decision that my value was higher at the price that I'd quoted it, and that I couldn't negotiate on that price just to win a deal because I'd end up regretting it in the in the future. I've been there, I've done that before. Right. So I've been there where I I'm not willing to negotiate at that point.

Dave 48:55

Yeah. Early on, when you're when you're in the wrong mindset of I just need money, you're willing to like look at in your in your and again, this this is my error of my ways. You know, I always went into a conversation, like, I have to sign clients, right? I'm trying to build a business, I need to make monthly income, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. And so I would, it's just like, oh, okay, you know, oh, $1,000 too much, what about $500? Or, you know, and I would negotiate, and then they're the most painful clients. I'm gonna, I'm not, I'm not like in all honesty, if you're giving somebody that if you think of all your clients, this is the 80-20 rule. We talked about this before, you know, 80% of your revenue and your net profit probably comes from 20% of your customers, which is a reality. The the people who are probably your least problem clients are the ones that didn't negotiate on price because they saw the value and they're seeing the value and you're giving them the output. The people who are your problems are the ones that negotiate on the price because they just it may not be that they don't see the value, it's just that they put too much on money that they're spending and they want to negotiate down and feel like they're getting a deal. And I know we've talked about it in the past about if somebody wants to negotiate price, like I'm uh I'm okay, like depending on their situation and knowing their business. Yeah, if they don't, if they can't do the full package, okay. Well, tell me what's important to you from this, and then I can negotiate, and then I'm negotiating scope as well. Like if they want to negotiate the investment, I'm also going to be negotiating with them the scope of the project. Because if you want to invest less per month, I'm more than happy with that. But it's all you're not going to get the same amount of effort on my end, right? So let's say you know your package or your program includes a meeting every week or every other week, but they want to negotiate. Okay, well, I I can do a monthly meeting and it's X, Y, and Z. Right. So you're not having to give the same amount of effort to those clients because it's also not fair to your clients that are not a problem to you, that they're paying the full price, and your problem clients are paying cheaper.

Duarne 51:03

Oh, well, that's and they're getting more of your attention. And then this is the thing, and and this is this wasn't just a light decision. This is after being instructed to do follow a process for communication, which they refused to follow three times in the same day, due to we're in other meetings, so it's just like, you know what? We can see the signs, let's just make the decision now and not push forward. And you feel good about it, but it's understanding your value, it's understanding that when you put forward your solution, that your solution can be the best solution, it can solve all their problems, but if they don't see the value like we were just talking about before, like my brother saw the value on what he was getting through out of the software package, it made sense. And and this is where you've got to make the mistake. Yeah, finish your statement. You've got to make the mistake sometimes, they've got to go the wrong way, they've got to do the wrong thing, they've got to realize hang on, this person was giving me some really great advice. Why didn't I listen? Can you come back? And I've got another client who did the same thing with me six months ago for an outsourced staffing member, came back to me about three weeks ago saying, Hey, can we really we want to do work with you? It didn't work out the way we were planning. So it's good, okay, we can do that. Let's read let's renegotiate where we're at.

Dave 52:26

And and so for me, and and again, this is still because I'm not I'm I'm not a salesperson, okay. Never been a salesperson in my career in in corporate world, so it's still an evolving thing for me. You know, it's only a year and a half into me actually like paying attention to and being mindful that yes, we have to be better

Sell With Questions And Fit Your ICP

Dave 52:47

at salespeople. But you can be salesperson as a caring way. But when we talk about value and not seeing value, the biggest thing, the biggest lesson that I have learned about that is to stop uh pitching the benefits of your program or your system. Like, what are they getting to stop pitching that piece? I mean, I'm actually starting to like incorporate this more into the proposal pieces that we're doing is more in what are their problems? Like again, as we talked about, what are the problems, what are the obstacles, what are the pains? Uh that's what you need to be talking to uh in your proposals and uh what the solution looks like possibly with that proposal, not just lead with all the benefits. Because if you do that, uh they again, and you could probably think of when you're looking at a proposal for yourself, you're trying to evaluate what does it mean for me? Like what's in this for me? And if you're only talking about benefit, benefit, but yeah, benefit, benefit, benefit. And if they don't have that right now, they don't, they're not utilizing what that benefit is that you're gonna give them or that support that you're gonna give, they have no idea what that is. They have no idea what the value is. So that's why, like a lesson for me that I learned was like if somebody's not having an advisory session yet, they don't know what that is, they don't know what they're missing, they don't know the value of the conversation for 45 to 60 minutes with somebody that is going to push back on them, right? Or that is going to, you know, ask the hard questions that they need to do. So what you have to do is you have to say, like right now, you had mentioned in the conversation that you don't have a support system. Using or signing up for this level of service would give you a support system where every week you're talking X, Y, and Z. And you're again, it's all written in their space. It's not, well, I serviced 150 clients, blah, blah, blah, blah. They don't care about that. They want no, they want they want to know what the outcome is for them personally.

Duarne 54:50

What is the outcome for them personally? And this is it's interesting because it was one of the things that you'll find in sales, one of the hardest sales to make is with people who have not started a business yet. They're in the very, very foundational stages of it and they're looking to get the products they need or the services they need. And it's their first business, and it's their first business. What they're typically going to be doing is they're going to be shopping around based on price because they by default they feel that's the best thing to do, not based on, oh my gosh, this just saves so much time. And if you want to look at a prime example of that, when I got married, we hired a wedding planner, and she took care of everything. And no stress to me at all. No stress to my wife. But we turned up on we turned up to a few meetings, talked a few things through, tried a few different meat foods before, trip was from the caterer, picked a few different bits and pieces, went and got some clothes, turned up at the event, had a great time, went home. Didn't have to clean anything up, just had to sign a check before the event. Best decision ever. I've seen friends who have gone in and had weddings and did not use wedding planners, and I just shook my head when they came back with all the stressful scenarios after the fact. Our wedding was 100 people. I mean, it wasn't a small wedding, it would have taken a huge amount of effort to plan that. So, kudos to that. There is definitely value when you get people who are very good at what they do in to do that. It's very hard to sell someone on the idea of your value when they've never experienced the problem of not having someone with the value. My brother had experienced the wrong phone system. He knew what it meant to have an employee not handle the calls correctly. So he had the pain and knew what his outcome needed to be. And sometimes walk away if they don't if the person in that you're trying to do sale with can't establish the value because they're not ready, maybe that's not the right customer for you.

Dave 57:00

And that's why for me, like I go into a lot of conversations now after kind of going through the training that I did, realizing that I don't need every sale, I don't want every sale either, because they may not be a good fit personal personality-wise, etc. But there's may not even be a problem there for me to help them with. So in that aspect, I'm I'm a newbie. And those things are just like you know, we talk about self-improving and self-training, you know, skills in AI, you have to do the same thing for yourself. You have to look back at the conversations, look back at the proposals and really analyze it and say, you know, if somebody as a business owner, and this is again, as you incorporate AI, this is the ways to do it, you know, you could say act as a business owner and give the actual personal profile and say, you know, if you were given this proposal, would you feel that I was just trying to pitch a product or a solution? Or did I actually focus on and give you the value? And if I miss the value, what do you feel is missing that I can improve? Right? Same thing with your transcripts. Put those into the same AI and say, here's the transcripts from you know our exploratory session and our follow-up session. Did I pitch too soon? Did I focus on us instead of focusing on them? How do I improve? Those are the pieces that should also be built into some sort of regular cadence within your week.

Duarne 59:17

Well, I mean, the other thing to keep in mind too is ask the question, which no one likes to ask, is are they actually the right customer that I should be chasing? Yeah. Because sometimes during that exploratory call, there were signs, or even on the follow-up call, that they weren't ready to make the purchase, they weren't into what you were trying to offer, that they aren't ready to make the change. There is resistance and hesitance there, but you may not pick up on it, especially when there's more than one party in the call. Like in the instance that we had, there were three people, a mother and two daughters. So it was family, and it was just way too much emotion, too much talking over each other going on, sharing ideas from the excitement. And sometimes you don't see that when you're caught up in the actual event at the time. So a little bit of retrospective clarity is a really powerful thing. And like you said, you don't need every deal. Some deals you'll end up regretting, some deals you do because you're desperate, some deals you do because you feel like you have to eat, and you need you need to get the deal in.

Dave 1:00:25

And what you really need to think about, and I guess we can kind of end on this aspect around this, and again, not even touch on any of the stuff we wanted to chat about. But I I guess I'll end with this, and this is actually a big piece, is you have to understand your business just as much as you understand your clients, and how that fits here, right? Is you have to understand what is your price point, right? What is your offering that you want to provide to your ICP, ideal client profile and then understand does that even fit your ICP? Because, for example, I've had this conversation with a lot of people. We figured out that their programming, where they're at, you know, maybe it's and this is just a range, you know, they have a couple packages that range anywhere from a thousand to fifteen thousand dollars. And again, that's a home run offer used on the pricing side, which we can talk another side. But the majority of their their range would be anywhere from a thousand to you know three thousand, but they have packages that go from a thousand to fifteen thousand a month. Now, in the same conversation, once we figure that out, they're like their ICP is new business owners. Wait a minute. Like, think of your price point and then think of new business owners. Even think of yourself as a new business owner. Did you have a thousand, three thousand dollars a month to invest in some sort of program or support system? 99% of you probably didn't, just like me, and probably you Jordan, though when you guys started out, you probably didn't have that. You're trying to boot so you're right, you can't fit that into an ICP that's brand new business owners because they don't have the money, right? So if you're like, I service people that are under $250,000 a month, great. So $250,000 companies, the average net profit of a company is anywhere from 10 to 15%. So in that case, that net profit of a $250,000 a year company is $25,000 to maybe $35,000 or $40,000. And you want them to invest $1,000 to $3,000 a month in your support system. Okay, that's $12,000 to $36,000 a year. Do you realize how much of their net income that they're taking home right now, they have to give up if you're not showing them the value and all this kind of stuff, right? For them to give up. Um I mean, without a proven return on investment, without any of that value and stuff that you're you're showing them that they need to do to continue to grow. You're talking to the choir here. I get it. Like there's a reason that you would want to invest at in that area on some of these things. However, you have to realize you know, you have to fit in.

Duarne 1:03:07

Yeah, exactly. Pick your customer, and that's the thing, right? It's very interesting when we do websites and marketing. One of the first things I do is I do that exploratory call, and they're always, what's the price? What's the price? What's the price? And I well, let's have a conversation first. Yeah, and it's like, well, who's your ideal customer? Who are you trying to sell this to? Who are you trying to get to come here and do this? Okay, how are you currently trying to do it? Are they the type of people that are currently coming and currently buying? And it helps me establish that conversation and it puts them in a frame of mind where they start to realize that it's not about just putting money down on the table and making something happen, that there's a process to it. But the amount of times you find that part in sales is missed. People sign a deal and then have to sit there and retrospectively explain everything, it's very time consuming for both parties, very stressful for both parties. Start with those first conversations and stop going in trying to sell on the first conversation, just get an understanding of whether it's a good fit and stop being desperate in the sale to get a sale. Just go in, meet, greet. For me, that call um that meeting I did this week was not about selling the solution, it was about pitching our system and seeing what the reaction was. And the reaction initially was very, very good.

Dave 1:04:34

So let me ask, I guess let's hit on that really quick because I think I don't want the wrong signal to go out.

Duarne 1:04:41

Yeah.

Dave 1:04:42

It wasn't your first meeting that you're pitching your system, right? This was, or correct me if I'm wrong, like you've already had conversations with them prior to this. Now it was finally getting to the point of hey, let's talk about a possible solution, right? Or was this a first meeting that you were having with this group?

Duarne 1:04:59

This is the first meeting where they wanted a solution, they wanted a website and this and they wanted to solve all these other problems that they were trying to do around. Maybe talking with them leading up to this point. It'd been a conversation had on a phone prior with by you know my mystery. That's the point I wanted to I wanted to clarify about because if we understood some of the basic information before we went out there, then we got to listen to the full scope of it, then put forward. So this is what you're trying to solve. Yep, this is what you're trying to solve. Yep, this is what you're trying to solve.

Dave 1:05:30

Okay, and have a think of the process overall, and then I'll let you get back to it real quick. The last 10 to 15 is where you should be talking about a possible solution. The first 85% of the conversation should be focused on them, yeah, asking them questions and having them answer. That's how they're gonna persuade themselves by them being talkative, and then you can pitch at the end 10% if there's a thing that you've identified that it's a problem. But all right, go ahead. Sorry, I wanted to clarify that before No, absolutely.

Duarne 1:05:59

But yeah, look, if I had to go through this particular instance, there was a lot of red flags for us. One hour late to a meeting, when was a big red flag for us. You know, I was ready to leave. My wife hadn't finished a coffee yet. The only reason we hung around the extra five minutes when they turned up. One person in the meeting turned into three people in the meeting. So just lots of little things, lots of talking over each other. Tried to end the meeting three times over a 45-minute period because we had a dinner to get to, and just the lack of respect for our time being able to let us leave. So it's just little things, and all those little things can be overlooked up until you add sit back and retrospectively look at them with the extra things that came in the next day after an official proposal's been sent out. So my biggest advice to anyone is you don't try and sell in that first meeting. Pitch a concept and an idea and a solution, follow it up with your proposal, and then sit back and think about how that meeting went and make a decision. Is it the right sort of relationship you want to get into? Or is it something you want to take a minute to think about? And sometimes you don't take every deal. Sometimes it's not the right deal. Sometimes the email you send is sorry, I don't think this is going to be a good fit.

Dave 1:07:29

And make the decision. Or at the end of the conversation, it you don't even get to that. You just say, you can even just kindly suggest, you know, based on what I've heard so far from you, I don't think you're at the right stage where we would be impactful to your business. But you can point them in the right direction, and that's how you stay top of mind. Like that is such an impact to a prospect because you they automatically know that you're not selling them. You know, you're not trying to force something down their throat. That's going to have a lasting effect than you trying to make something that maybe isn't right for them at the stage that they're at and trying to force feed them or you know adjust it so that they they just buy from you. So just being able to say something is simple, and and this is how I have tried implementing it with my conversations too is you know, let's have a conversation. At the end of that conversation, if there's appropriate next steps, we can talk about those, or we can point you in the right direction of where you should go based on your situation. That's the goal of the conversation. And taking the pressure off yourself to have to get to a close is such an immense full relief that I can't even like I can't even explain it. Like you just have to do it. It's a mindset, like for me, and I'm sure a lot of other people are feeling the same way. It's like that's counterintuitive. It's like you're supposed to be trying to know it's just a relief to a conversation and know that you're not trying to put the pressure on yourself that I have to say the right things to get this person to agree to close at the end of this conversation. You're just free to listen, to understand, to care. And that's the biggest piece. So hopefully you're in business to care about the people that you're solving and and their problems with. That's when you can start to actually truly be impactful with your business.

Duarne 1:09:21

Absolutely. And it's not about making, you don't even have to make a sale to be impactful. You know, they walked away from that meeting with so much value, more than they anticipated, even though I don't plan to do business with them in the future. And look, they're not the first person I've done that with. You know, there's plenty of people.

Dave 1:09:38

And they may just get their shit together, right? They may get their shit together and come back to you and be like, hey Jordan, we love that you pointed us in the right direction. We've we've got some business now. Let's have another conversation. Yeah, and then you'll test them again. You'll go and see if they, you know, still don't respect your time. And at that point, you have another opportunity to say, Yeah, I still don't think it's a good fit.

Duarne 1:09:57

100%.

Dave 1:09:59

But you control that conversation instead of you trying to be pressured into the situation because you're trying to force every set.

Duarne 1:10:06

And that's exactly right. And we've been doing that with our staff for a long time now, too. Where we make sure that we get the right fit staff member rather than try and force fit a staff member in just because they've got good, you know, good resume or a good gift skill set. You know, they have to have the right attitude, the aptitude, good communication. They've got to be able to tick all the other boxes as well. You got to be able to fit with our team. And this is if you take that much care in your own when you're hiring people, you should do the same thing when you're bringing in clients because those clients have to work with your team. You know, we had a great experience. I refer to a client and did an intro call along with the client and the vendor that I introduced them to earlier this week. When they both get off the call, I get three messages. There's two two people from the client side, plus there was a vendor in the call, all three messaging me separately, going, Oh my god, that was a great meeting. That was I love this guy, he's so awesome. I want to do business with him. And I'm like, Okay, cool, great connection, really well done. That's the sort of feeling you want to have with clients as well. You want everyone to feel like they want to work together. You know, I remember speaking to the vendor afterwards, and his reaction to his staff member who walked into the room saying they're gonna be really fun to work with. Right. That's like, and I got a similar reaction from the client that I referred. So I think you get when you've got that 20% of clients you really want to, you know, that don't feel right, let them go. The 80% of the clients that feel really good and are great to work with, hang on to them because that 20% will make you work too hard for it.

Dave 1:11:52

Yeah, and and it's also a that's another analysis that we can get into. Maybe we can talk about it next week, would be doing that recurring evaluation of the 80-20 in your business. So I'll leave you on a teaser of that. Juarren. Well, buddy, another great conversation. An hour and 15 minutes already, and not one thing has been mentioned about the three things that we would like to have talked about from this week. So we'll try to bring those back in, you know. They'll be relevant next week. Yes, yes. So we'll talk 8020, but we'll also kind of talk about the three things we were going to talk about this week. But Jordan, what's the one thing that you hope somebody took away from today's episode and can just begin to implement even partially, a little bit in their business next week.

Duarne 1:12:42

Appreciate your own value, understand your own value in your business and your offerings. Until you understand that, you customers will never understand it.

Dave 1:12:51

Yeah. I like that. And I would say for me,

Key Takeaways And How To Support

Dave 1:12:56

is I say this all the time. Jeremy Minor, seventh level, he's the education that I went through, the neuroemotional persuasion questioning. I would say look him up, go through, you know, he he offers his free black book of questions, which kind of walks through the stages. So if you're new to business and you've never been a salesperson in your entire life, like this is not, I don't get paid from this, I don't do any like that. I've gone through it and I use it, I tell people about it. I I in teach people about it because it's so impactful. But then I also share Jeremy's name because it's he's the expert in it. So go watch the video. I agree. Yeah, great. Go look him up, follow him on social media, whatever it is. But look at yourself and realize that if you don't have the skill, either two things. One, you it's something that you want to learn and you want to get better at. So learn it, find resources to help you. Or two, uh, maybe you need to outsource that or get support in that in another way. So you can't do you can't force yourself to do something that one, you're not passionate about, and two, you're not good at. It's only gonna waste your time, which is a little bit of something that we wanted to talk about today. So we'll bring that up next week, too. So we appreciate you. Please, if you've gotten something from this episode, share this with your network. Like again, we're trying to grow the show. And if you're interested in your business owner, or maybe you want to come on and talk about something going on in your business, or you get some specific advice on the show, or more, you know, we invite you to use the link down below to request to join a future episode, and we'll have you on. But with that, we appreciate you. Have a wonderful and amazing week. Do all that fun algorithm stuff, you know, kind of like, subscribe, you know, share it, give it a big old thumbs up. And we will see everybody in the next one. Dwarren, thanks for joining me and have a good week. See you guys. Thanks. Take care, guys. Bye bye.